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Can someone explain the point / value or a real estate agent for a home buyer? If I’ve already figured out what area I want to live in, researched schools in the area, and am capable of looking up houses on Zillow, what value are they adding? We’ve dealt with a couple of real estate agents during our search, and I don’t see how they’ve helped me at all aside from giving me a “heads up” to a listing that goes up on Zillow the following day anyway.
On the flip side, I have to deal with an extra person in the process (I feel obligated to call them before I go to an open house listed by someone else because I’m “working” with them; then they call me afterwards and I have to explain why I didn’t like the house) and they tend to only send me their own listings, so I have to search Zillow to find other houses anyway.
What am I missing? Have we just been unlucky with real estate agents? I honestly don’t get it.
We have one real estate agent that kind of latched on to us at an open house and has been sending us listings, some of which we went to see with her (by which I mean that we went to the open houses and she showed up as our agent). She was a little pushy and we felt like she was looking out for her own interests (pushing homes where she’s the seller agent). Last week I saw a listing on Zillow and reached out to the listing agent directly and set up an appointment to see the house. The RE agent we’ve been working with then sent us the same listing a week later and we told her we’re already seeing it with someone else. So she called us last night to berate us for not reaching out to her to see that house, she’s already invested so much time in us, etc. (I really don’t feel she’s really done all that much - she’s sent us a few listings via email and showed up to 3 or 4 open houses that are all within walking distance of her house).
Are we in the wrong here? I just think if we see it with a listing agent without a second agent coming into the mix, that’s one less person to deal with. And if two offers come in for the same amount, the listing agent is more likely to push for the buyers without their own agent, because she doesn’t have to split the fee. Am I misunderstanding how this process works?
Please don’t judge, we’re learning as we go and want to do the right thing by everyone but also look out for ourselves here.
I think a REALLY good real estate agent can help you negotiate the best deal for yourself as a buyer. Real estate has gotten a bit more complicated with all the different types of loans, seller concessions, etc. That's what I think you might be underestimating when it comes to offers. But again - we are talking about GOOD agents with attention to detail. They earn their money.
I will say in other states it's probably more important because agents draw up the contract and handle post inspection negotiations. In NY the attorney does a lot of this kind of work. If you have not found a buyer's agent you like and feel you can go it alone, then that's fine. Just remember the seller has a professional looking out for them, who does these transactions every single day, and you don't. The seller's agent's job is to squeeze every penny from you that they can. It's not to make sure you get a good deal or are happy with the process and outcome.
Real estate is full of people who think they can do it part time or on their time. I read something on the CD RE forum, something like 20% of agents sell 80% of houses. I believe it. If it's not your full time job, that keeps your bills paid, I don't want to work with you.
I have purchased 4 homes in the last 15 years and found a really good person through my credit union. She helped me with my last 2 purchases and selling of one. I had a few bad experiences but I have always found any RE agent to be helpful beyond me just looking at the listings. They will let you know/confirm the school districts (believe it or not people get screwed by this), whether the home is close or in foreclosure or a divorce situation (can affect closing date), comparing prices in the neighborhood for negotiations, whether the home is a flip, scheduling multiple homes, can tell you if other RE agents are negotiable or difficult to deal with. They also have behind the scene print out with notes that we cannot usually see unless you know someone that can log you into their internal sites. They can also get buyers who are 50-50 to commit!
I had one agent when I was young and was trying to rent just abandon me after two days of looking, lol. I had one agent help me get my condo and then I used her to sell. I was buying in a completely different area and I had no idea agents can cover all different areas. I just thought they had territories (I am in sales and have specific territories). Well that agent found out and berated me. Never used or recommended her again. I had a wonderful agent help me during a short sale, unfortunately I did not use her when I went to purchase again, only cause my FCU recommended an agent (and I get money back for using their recommendation).
Agents can also help you and your lawyer when communication goes dark. Or if your mortgage company bails because of CO issues (Yes, I had that happen during my second purchase, scary)...sometimes an Agent can get you that loan via referral, etc.
I am probably going to ruffle some feathers here, but here's my take on it.
In NY, the value of a realtor is going to depend VERY much on what your level of expertise as a buyer is. If you are a first or even second-time buyer, signing up with someone (buyer agency) may be a good idea ... depending on the agent, of course. There are good and bad in every profession and real estate is no exception.
However, if you yourself are doing all the things mentioned in the OP and have all your ducks already in a row regarding budget, financing, available resources regarding inspections and a working knowledge of how much the associated costs are going to be ..... a real estate agent may indeed be not much more than merely another phone call in a telephone chain. Sometimes people think that there's some kind of magical relationship between realtors whereby "the impossible can be made possible" when crafting a deal, but there can just as easily be no such thing or even the opposite.
I've been to the house-hunting dance five times in my life, all of them here on LI. Only two of those were in pre-internet days, and those same two were during an era (1970s) when buyer agency was virtually unknown here. (Sadly, buyers were typically unaware that the nice real estate person was actually working on behalf of the seller all the time.) I also had the advantage of having worked in a law office that handled foreclosures and so I was familiar with and wasn't intimidated by the real estate milieu.
For the other three hunts the only practical advantage I derived from using a buyer agent was that she had me set up to receive an email copy of the Stratus [the internal version of the public MLSLI listing; it has additional information such as commission split, etc] as soon as any listing within any of my "possible" towns was uploaded to MLS. Sometimes that saved me a few hours but most often not really, because I didn't have a smart phone then and so it was dependent on me checking email. 90% of the time, I was aware of (and usually dismissed) a listing before my agent called or emailed me about it. Getting the Stratus also allowed me to know about and attend broker open houses, those typically-Thursday events that are not advertised on the public (MLSLI) web site. Sometimes my agent's office would get an exclusive listing that he or she would call and tip me off about, but those have become far less common in recent years.
I have also had some agents screw things up royally, either through stupid mistakes or rank nonprofessionalism. The most frustrating thing, with my last agent, was the difficulty of her being available for showings. It became a recurring issue until finally I terminated the agency agreement and began calling listing agents directly. Never had a problem scheduling a showing after that, usually the same day I called or, if in the late afternoon, then the next morning.
Bottom line is, if you are familar with Long Island, are willing and able to spend the time and legwork (some things have to be ferreted out in person), know exactly where you are financially and already have some NY-based home buying experience under your belt, you may not "need" an agent. Honestly I can only think of one of my five home purchases that might not have occurred as it did if I had not used a realtor; that one was in 1998 and happened to be a new office-exclusive listing that the buyer had agreed to let the agent's office market for 2 weeks before putting it on MLS. The agent I was using had already found me a temporary apartment situation and coincidentally was the one who took the "up" for the new listing. But that was a pure serendipity situation.
Thank you, this is very helpful! We seem to be already doing all the things discussed above (we’ve done research on school zones, we look at price history and can generally identify a flip, we have received recommendations for inspectors and lawyers, and I have no issue scheduling my own appointments or handling the administrative side of things). It’s our first home purchase, though, so it’s s more of a case of “we don’t know what we don’t know”. But from reading the comments here, it seems like we’ve got most of the pre-offer bases covered. Is there anything that a buyer’s agent does between offer and closing that any of you have found to be particularly valuable? Or does the attorney handle most of that process in NY?
BBCjunkie, what things are you thinking about that need to be ferreted out in person?
Is there anything that a buyer’s agent does between offer and closing that any of you have found to be particularly valuable? Or does the attorney handle most of that process in NY?
BBCjunkie, what things are you thinking about that need to be ferreted out in person?
Sadly, I have found that you often can't take what the seller (or seller's agent) says as gospel when it comes to things like property tax amounts and COs. Sometimes these are honest mistakes, or simple ball-dropping (for example, an agent who lists a Suffolk County house may forget to update the property-tax numbers after the owner gets their new tax bill in December.. or the seller may forget to tell the agent.. or the agent may have mistakenly shown the "after STAR" number on the listing as lower than reality because they accidentally used the seller's Enhanced or Low Income Senior or other special exemptions net figure instead of the Basic STAR one.) Some agents take the time to verify that the tax amount on their listing is actually correct, but some don't. Not all Towns have that information online and easily searchable.
For example let's say you look at a house that has a finished basement and you ask the seller's agent "Is this finished basement reflected in the current property taxes?" Or you see a house that has 3 full baths (or a "summer kitchen") and you ask the same question. The agent may say "There are COs for everything" which doesn't actually answer your question because the sellers may have only applied for those when they decided to list the house, which means those items are not yet reflected in the taxes shown on the listing. But if you go to the Assessor's office in person and say "We are thinking of buying a house and are wondering exactly what it's being currently taxed on", you may find that the Town is under the impression that it's an unfinished basement, or only has 2 bathrooms, or only has 1 kitchen, etc. because maybe the COs haven't made their way over from the Building Department yet. Or (even more likely) the tax rolls have already been finalized for that year and the hit won't be felt until next time.
Or let's say the house has a cesspool and you want to know whether it's the original block one or has been replaced with a precast (let's hope.) But the seller either doesn't know or doesn't want to say (because they know a block pool is on borrowed time) and so they say they don't know. You could -- and should!! -- spend an extra couple hundred to have a cesspool company come and inspect it (having made it a contingency to your offer price in case it's a block pool) if the seller allows you to do that. But if they say no, you'll need to go to the County health department to see if they have any record of that pool being replaced, and they never do that sort of thing over the phone (you need to fill out forms and such.) In Suffolk County this information is now a must because a recent law will require old cesspools to be replaced with a special system starting this July (2019), with cost estimates averaging about $20K. So a person would be nuts to buy a "cesspool" house in Suffolk nowadays without first making sure it's a precast one that's in good condition. And the SC Health Dept office is in Riverhead; the towns don't have that information.
ETA: Between accepted offer and closing, real estate agents are pretty much out of the loop unless the buyer wants to, say, make an appointment to come in and measure stuff. The lawyers take over and the buyer typically is communicating directly with their bank or mortgage company. It would be a courtesy for the buyer and seller to keep their agent in the loop about the status but once the inspection is done and any price tweaks negotiated as a result of same, the whole thing is handed off to the two lawyers.
Last edited by BBCjunkie; 04-29-2019 at 10:18 AM..
The key is you have to work with a Good/Great agent. I am a believer that in terms of real estate there are two things that are worth their weight in Gold. A good realtor and a REAL ESTATE attorney.
The role of an agent on your behalf is to sift through the deals and see where you might get yourself in trouble being inexperienced. Many times sellers are less than honest with their homes and it is their agents job to sell the home on their behalf. I do not mean to imply that they are lying, just that if for example, there is an unpermitted bathroom, they might soft sell that issue whereas your agent can give you the potential problems that can arise from that. They can also represent you in the negotiations which can come with a host of emotions particularly on the sellers part.
I can offer an example from a recent family member. A home that needed work, but was not bad came up and they looked at it. The sellers needed a certain price because they were low on equity in the home, or so they said. They rejected the offer and refused to budge from their price which was absurd given the maintenance (not upgrades, mind you) that needed to be done. Their realtor showed the sellers realtor a smaller home, three blocks away in the same community that had sold two weeks prior for more than they were willing to accept and that home was turn key and the landscaping beautiful. They got the home for the price they offered because their realtor stepped up on their behalf. Can you do it? Sure? But, like I said, why would you not go to the person who does this for a living instead of DIY. And you are not out a dime.
A home that needed work, but was not bad came up and they looked at it. The sellers needed a certain price because they were low on equity in the home, or so they said. They rejected the offer and refused to budge from their price which was absurd given the maintenance (not upgrades, mind you) that needed to be done. Their realtor showed the sellers realtor a smaller home, three blocks away in the same community that had sold two weeks prior for more than they were willing to accept and that home was turn key and the landscaping beautiful. They got the home for the price they offered because their realtor stepped up on their behalf.
I agree that if the buyers had not used a realtor they might not have been aware of the prior-sale comp to bolster their argument to the seller to accept their offer. But the key there was that the sellers were willing to agree, even though they did not do so before...which raises an interesting question of its own: Assuming the house was not a FSBO, their listing agent should have brought the comp to their attention during the negotiation process (if not before.) So IMHO the seller's agent dropped the ball, thereby allowing the buyer's agent to capitalize. In other words, the conversation should have gone like this:
Listing Agent: "The Smiths have submitted an offer for $600K" Seller: "That's ridiculous. You know we won't take anything less than $750K for the house!" LA: "I understand, but you should be aware that the same house over on Drury Lane just sold a couple weeks ago for $610K and it was in diamond condition and professionally landscaped too. So the Smiths are probably basing their offer on that, and any future buyers are going to take that sale into consideration. Unfortunately that comp is going to influence offers on your house for the next six months at least." Seller: "Wow, that sucks. So you're saying that Drury Lane house has killed our chance of ever getting what we need for ours?" LA: "Well, never say never but you may end up waiting a very long time for the 'right' buyer (if ever) and a bird in the hand.... well, you know your own situation best but I'd be remiss if I didn't give you a heads up on this. Think about it and let me know what you want to do."
But instead it probably went like this: Listing Agent: "The Smiths have submitted an offer for $600K" Seller: "That's ridiculous. You know we won't take anything less than $750K for the house!" LA: "So no counter?" Seller: "Of course not. They are probably just playing games. The price is what it is." LA: "Okay, I will convey that to their agent."
This is assuming of course that the offer was made agent-to-agent. Some listing agents insist on that, rather than allowing the buyer's agent to make a direct pitch to the seller in person. My last agent always tried to do that but was only allowed the opportunity twice.
I think it's funny how the OP is willing to be sucked in by one anonymous poster on the internet but doesn't want to deal with a qualified RE agent that they can vet in real life. Gotta love the interwebz generation.
- Intangible knowledge
- Local area knowledge
- Managing multiple appointments on a given weekend (includes dealing with flaky people - the worst)
- Pull / verify records so you don't have to deal with town people
- Walking through contract/closings (but I guess you can also consult your lawyer if they answer your every call)
- They're essentially free (unless you find a seller who would discount because you didn't have an agent)
This is not to say I disagree with your cons, but those are the pros. I would surely work with my buyer agent again.
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