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My SO had that thought too. But what is a fair compensation for someone plugging our email into the Stratus system, or giving us an emailed link for an MLS number that we emailed them we wanted to see the info on? My SO and I have spent far more hours and gallons of gas in driving past houses and through their neighborhoods to "vet" each house before even asking our agent for a showing. Our agent has NEVER previewed a house for us to see if it meets our requirements, as I understand is sometimes done. She has never gone to the Town to verify taxes etc on anything; we've always done that ourselves. During the last 8 months we have physically seen less than a dozen houses with her, half of which have been in her home territory but not ours, so the time and gas involved has been a lot more for us than for her. She has only TWICE done comps for us on a property and only TWICE have things got to the point of tendering an actual offer.
You know, whenever I see a thread with someone asking what realtors really do to "earn" their commission, I always see responses by agents citing how many hours they spend on clients who either end up not buying or not selling. And I'm not arguing with that. It IS part of the package of being in that profession. So I honestly don't understand the logic of feeling that we owe this agent compensation, especially when we feel that in hours and time and energy expended over the past 8 months, we have put in far more of those things than she has. We don't dislike her but we've come to the point of feeling like we are paying for something we don't need to have.
Oh come on - - dump this agent and go it alone - - you already will know 50x more than most of them before you even get to see the house. No offense to the REA's on this board, but lets face it - - most of the REA's just stand in the house pointing like Carole Marill (sp?) on Lets Make a Deal - -"this way is the kitchen", "there's the powder room", "I would knock this wall out", etc etc etc....
Do it on your own.......
And by the way - - good for you! You havent been slaughtered yet in a local housing market that is so unrealistic it is in the twilight zone....you are a good, educated consumer who knows quality and what the quality should equate to dollar-wise. Do you KNOW HOW MANY IDIOTIC FOOLS are buying houses, doing ZERO research and trusting everyone on the sellers side? Many lazy, stupid fools will overpay because they just dont care to put any effort in to this and just need to get their kids enrolled in schools by the Fall.... I would bet those are the ones who most sellers are waiting for with baited breath - - to show up at their Open House and offer cash for the list price
Unless you really dislike this person, there is no need to stop working with her. It sounds like she has invested a lot of unproductive time with you (eight months). You really don't have anything to gain by calling each listing agent individually. Whether a consumer is working with a buyers agent or a sellers agent, it is a good idea to pick an agent and stick with him/her as long as you are being serviced well.
Also, (and I have given this advice many times before), you would be better off looking at homes that are closer to what you are willing to pay. If a seller is realistic, they will price a home accordingly. It's rare that you are going to get them to come dramatically off their price, even if you believe that the home is worth significantly less.
It should not take eight months to find a home. Just like the seller who takes a year to sell, a buyer who takes a year to buy probably has unrealistic expectations.
Hey, lets not forget the wonderful advice of many REA's telling sellers to "bloat" their target sale price by another 20% so that it provides a cushion for low-ball offers!!!!!!!!
And do let's talk about comps and how useless they usually are. First of all we rarely see a comp that is TRULY comparable to the house being considered. One of our offers was for a 2500 sq ft, 4-bedroom, 2-bath Colonial, 2-car garage, on a half acre, built in 1969 in Smithtown (but Hauppauge SD). Our agent produced a set of about a dozen comps. First of all, NONE of the comps gave the square footage (thanks to the laziness of most listing agents about getting or including that info in the listing AT ALL) so there was no way to how how the size of any of the comps compared to the one we were considering; half of the comps ranged from 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots; the locations of the houses ranged ALL over Smithtown, from the most to the least desirable areas (hello? price IS influenced by location!); and the sale dates of the comps ranged over the past FOURTEEN months. Only TWO of the comps had sold within the past 4 months. Most had closed at the end of last summer, or just before or after the winter holidays last year. NONE of the comps were in the same general area as the house we were considering (in The Pines, which commands a premium simply because of the location). So the comps, really WEREN'T. Funny thing that the last house we put in an offer on, our agent's selected comps supported her/our position that the house was overpriced. She asked for and received a copy of the listing agent's comps (the house was on the market for only 2 weeks when we saw it, so both comps were "fresh") which of course were tailor-built to support the seller's asking price. I think there were only a couple of houses that were on both comps. It's amazing how two entirely different results are obtained when comping the same house, depending on whether the agent doing them is working from a "sell" or a "buy" viewpoint!
And do let's talk about comps and how useless they usually are. First of all we rarely see a comp that is TRULY comparable to the house being considered. One of our offers was for a 2500 sq ft, 4-bedroom, 2-bath Colonial, 2-car garage, on a half acre, built in 1969 in Smithtown (but Hauppauge SD). Our agent produced a set of about a dozen comps. First of all, NONE of the comps gave the square footage (thanks to the laziness of most listing agents about getting or including that info in the listing AT ALL) so there was no way to how how the size of any of the comps compared to the one we were considering; half of the comps ranged from 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots; the locations of the houses ranged ALL over Smithtown, from the most to the least desirable areas (hello? price IS influenced by location!); and the sale dates of the comps ranged over the past FOURTEEN months. Only TWO of the comps had sold within the past 4 months. Most had closed at the end of last summer, or just before or after the winter holidays last year. NONE of the comps were in the same general area as the house we were considering (in The Pines, which commands a premium simply because of the location). So the comps, really WEREN'T. Funny thing that the last house we put in an offer on, our agent's selected comps supported her/our position that the house was overpriced. She asked for and received a copy of the listing agent's comps (the house was on the market for only 2 weeks when we saw it, so both comps were "fresh") which of course were tailor-built to support the seller's asking price. I think there were only a couple of houses that were on both comps. It's amazing how two entirely different results are obtained when comping the same house, depending on whether the agent doing them is working from a "sell" or a "buy" viewpoint!
Totally, totally correct. That is why YOU should do your own comps relecting the most positive comps from YOUR perspective - - not an agent or sellers.
When we see a house we like, I start crunching comps. I put together an EXCEL chart with about 10-15 columns of the standard stuff. Sometimes though, there are no real comps to consider. When that happens, I look at the Tax Assessor's 2009 Fair Market Value to see where that sits. If nothing is swinging in my favor, then I total up my top budget and required fixes and that would be my firm offer - - whether anyone considers that a low-ball or not.....if not, it is their problem as we have absolutely no gun to our heads.
And from the looks of things - - and seller competition - - if they really really want to sell, they should consider it. And you tell them they "should" consider it especially if your comp - - or no comp story supports the offer!
To return to the original post, the question was whether or not to use a buyers agent. The way that I see it, you are going to be dealing with an agent one way or another, like it or not, unless you buy a FSBO. So, it might as well be someone who is contractually obligated to act in your best interest rather than in the best interest of the seller. You don't need to enter into a long term agreement in order to get this benefit. If they are a good agent, they will immensly benefit you. If they are a bad agent, move on from them.
To return to the original post, the question was whether or not to use a buyers agent. The way that I see it, you are going to be dealing with an agent one way or another, like it or not, unless you buy a FSBO.
Hm, slightly different viewpoints here. Because when using a buyer's agent we are dealing with TWO agents: ours and the seller's. If we do not use a buyer's agent, and instead deal only with the LISTING agent for a house we are interested in, then we are dealing with only that ONE agent.
Another thing that annoyed us. We realize that buyer agency is still relatively new to Long Island. I've heard and read comments by realtors, when explaining the commission thing to potential buyers, saying "Having me act as your buyer agent doesn't cost YOU anything because my commission comes out of the commission that the seller has agreed to pay their agent, unless their agreement doesn't include compensation for a buyer's agent, in which case yes you would have to pay me my 2%, but that SO RARELY happens." Then just last week we were talking about closing costs in front of someone who we didn't realize at the time is a realtor, and I commented that at least with an MLS property versus a FSBO, the "seller ends up paying the buyer agent's commisson". This person said "That's not true, the buyer ends up paying it in reality, it just 'feels' like the seller is paying it." (!!) Sorry but you can't have it both ways depending on who (seller or buyer) is being talked to. But it got us thinking: if we deal only with the LISTING agent and no one else, then shouldn't that give us a bit more "wiggle room" in price negotiations? It certainly sounds like it. Let's face it, the seller is on the hook for his 4% no matter what. If it's true that a buyer agent's 2% ultimately comes out of the the SELLER's pocket, the seller should consider the fact that by involving only his listing agent, we the buyers are saving him a little money. The listing agent should be happy because he/she won't have to split their commission with another agent. And if it's true that the buyer agent's 2% actuallly comes out of the BUYER's pocket in the end, we would much rather keep that 2% than spend it, thanks very much.
[quote=totallyfrazzled;4915720]Hm, slightly different viewpoints here. Because when using a buyer's agent we are dealing with TWO agents: ours and the seller's. If we do not use a buyer's agent, and instead deal only with the LISTING agent for a house we are interested in, then we are dealing with only that ONE agent. quote]
But in theory you are only working with somebody who is on your "side" if you have a buyer's agent. Seriously, given the investment you seem to have in this home buying effort, which is great, I would recommend doing it yourself given you are probably not reaping the full benefit (at least in theory) of a buyer's agent; which at the very least means they are supposed to preview and do the advance legwork for you.
It should not take eight months to find a home. Just like the seller who takes a year to sell, a buyer who takes a year to buy probably has unrealistic expectations.
I have to disagree with this. In spite of this being a buyer's market, I haven't had much success finding a home this summer. I've looked at plenty of houses but the few that I was interested in didn't work out for various reasons (another higher offer, more work necessary than originally thought, house taken off market for personal reasons, etc.)
I don't think that my expectations are unrealistic. I think it would be worse (for me) if I bought a house I wasn't truly happy with just to fit a time frame. Yes, I wanted to buy a house this year to take advantage of interest rates before they climb higher, but a house is not something you should purchase unless its truly the right house for you.
If that takes me 8 months or longer, I think that's much more realistic than imagining I can take a Levitt cape and turn it into a dutch colonial or buy a house in Farmingdale if I truly want to live in Lynbrook. If I don't find a house that I'm happy with this year, then I'll simply keep saving my money and use it to increase my budget or decrease my interest rate.
[But in theory you are only working with somebody who is on your "side" if you have a buyer's agent.
Not exactly, if you really think about it, because our buyer agent is only acting as a middleman (middlewoman?) between us and the seller's agent. There is still the same communication going on, the same questions being asked and answers given. The ONLY difference is that instead of me or my SO asking the questions of "Mary Jones, Agent for Seller", our buyer agent is the person on the phone. My SO and I are grownups, we don't feel we need to hide behind someone else's skirt or suit when talking to a Seller's agent. Heck, until a year or so ago they were ALL seller's agents!!!
If we make an offer, we are saying the same thing to our buyer agent ("Offer 550K and see what they come back with") as we would say to the listing agent directly ourselves ("We are offering 550K, please let us know if that's acceptable to your seller"). We do NOT SAY to our buyer agent "Offer 550K and if they counter with between X and Y, then up our offer to 570K" because we want to know exactly what the seller's response is before deciding whether to up our offer and if so, by how much. But honestly in the great majority of cases we simply say "This is our firm offer of X dollars" because we prefer not to haggle. I really don't see the need for an intermediary for either of those situations really. So essentially we can't see any way in which having an extra person in our corner (a buyer agent) is making any difference at all, other than that 2% that has to be paid by somebody.
Hm, slightly different viewpoints here. Because when using a buyer's agent we are dealing with TWO agents: ours and the seller's. If we do not use a buyer's agent, and instead deal only with the LISTING agent for a house we are interested in, then we are dealing with only that ONE agent.
Another thing that annoyed us. We realize that buyer agency is still relatively new to Long Island. I've heard and read comments by realtors, when explaining the commission thing to potential buyers, saying "Having me act as your buyer agent doesn't cost YOU anything because my commission comes out of the commission that the seller has agreed to pay their agent, unless their agreement doesn't include compensation for a buyer's agent, in which case yes you would have to pay me my 2%, but that SO RARELY happens." Then just last week we were talking about closing costs in front of someone who we didn't realize at the time is a realtor, and I commented that at least with an MLS property versus a FSBO, the "seller ends up paying the buyer agent's commisson". This person said "That's not true, the buyer ends up paying it in reality, it just 'feels' like the seller is paying it." (!!) Sorry but you can't have it both ways depending on who (seller or buyer) is being talked to. But it got us thinking: if we deal only with the LISTING agent and no one else, then shouldn't that give us a bit more "wiggle room" in price negotiations? It certainly sounds like it. Let's face it, the seller is on the hook for his 4% no matter what. If it's true that a buyer agent's 2% ultimately comes out of the the SELLER's pocket, the seller should consider the fact that by involving only his listing agent, we the buyers are saving him a little money. The listing agent should be happy because he/she won't have to split their commission with another agent. And if it's true that the buyer agent's 2% actuallly comes out of the BUYER's pocket in the end, we would much rather keep that 2% than spend it, thanks very much.
I think if you go in without a agent, then the sellers agent gets the full 4%. No money is saved by the seller and no savings will be passed on to you.
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