Valley Stream or West Hempstead (New York, Franklin Square: school districts, taxes, to live in)

[Rachael84]

How is the area between Penninsula blvd and Sunrise highway? It's district 24, but I hear south Valley stream isn't that nice? We are seeing a house in this area on Sunday.

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Malverne, yes; West Hempstead, no. I don't understand the question "where did you get that from?"

Where did you find the Newsday article with Malverne on the list (wasn't sure if you were talking about Malverne or West Hempstead schools anymore)? I didn't remember either one of those being on it, thought maybe another new list had come out for '09.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Yes I do and no I didn't know that. A "worse reputation" among who? White people? So if it's viewed as worse than Lakeview, proportionately, do more white people move to Lakeview than Valley Stream? I know white people are still moving to Valley Stream. If it had that bad of a rep, they wouldn't, especially ones that already live on LI. Long Island has a major history of segregation as we all know and it is still going strong to some degree. There was a NY Times article written in 2002 about how it is actually the most segregated suburb in the entire nation. Whenever I quote this article, it gets taken off for alleged "copywrite violations," so here is the link: Study Calls L.I. Most Segregated Suburb - New York Times.

If I had to guess, I'd say any white people moving to Valley Stream currently are coming from already diverse neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens. I seriously doubt there are any more white Nassau/Suffolk natives moving there than there are moving to Lakeview. This is just a guess, of course.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Don't forget the infamous DeathMart incident when it comes to gossip! Basically, I don't care about the gossip. If people want to be racist and stay away, good for them because we don't want them here. We don't want white kids that will go out and attack (beat and/or kill) someone just because they are a minority. Racist parents will produce those kinds of kids, so they can stay away. Stay far away.

What I'm saying is that Newsday's "Schools In Need of Improvement" list IS gossip! There is nothing about that list based in factual evidence. Of course it will change the perceptions of it's readership, and in that respect areas served by that school district will be thought of in more of a negative light.... but that's just an unfortunate circumstance of poor journalism, and I don't understand why you would want to continue passing this myth along as opposed to the real facts which are readily available. I'm sure people in the Malverne SD are extremely concerned with improving the schools and community, if they've got that kind of monkey on their back they're never going to attract other families who have the same goal and the neighborhood will just sink....and the situation will repeat itself again and again. It's happened so many other places on LI. I've never seen a boarded up house in Lakeview just like I've never gotten shot at in Green Acres Mall - but there are obviously plenty of people who believe these things. I'm not trying to paint a pretty picture, I just don't think it helps anyone to pass off bad info as god's honest truth.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Okay then the best person to advice them as to whether Lakeview is desirable or not is someone who is also black. I don't say it's "racist" to mention this on your part, yet I say it's foolish and short-sighted in general for people to want to raise their kids in a segregated community in this day and age because they will have to interact with other races, colors, and creeds unless you lock them in their rooms their whole life after they graduate from their segregated high school! The world is becoming more and more of a global village and I think kids that live in a mostly segregated community are being done a disservice because eventually they will have to face the world and all its inhabitants.

Oh, trust me I could not agree with this more....I remember making a very similar post on here, as a response to why anyone would want to live in a diverse community.

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

That's what I like about Valley Stream. It has integrated through choice, not racist real estate policies like Roosevelt and some other towns did. People who live here also understand they are getting a multi-racial, multi-ethnic community and that's what they want, so it's about "our community" not about racial divisions and seeking segregation. As an aside, when white people state that they want to live in an all-white or majority white community they are attacked as "racists." Why should blacks be allowed to be "separtists" then without being complained at? The doublestandard is there.

Valley Stream has gone from being nothing but Italian and Jewish 15 years ago to a very diverse community today without many of the consequences that destroyed places like Roosevelt and Hempstead that suffered through white flight in the 50s/60s. A place like Lakeview is similar to Baldwin in that it's caught somewhere in between. I looked up historic data and Lakeview was primarily white until the 1980 census, so I'm more inclined to say there wasn't a situation where people chose to live there because it was a diverse community, but more likely that black people started moving in and white people started moving out and it's stayed that way. I agree, there is absolutely a double standard....however, like you said yourself earlier in your post - LI is (one of if not) the most segregated suburb(s) in the nation. I can understand very easily why a white person would not want to move to Harlem, I can understand very easily why a black person would not want to move to West Islip, or so many places on LI. I'm more inclined to chock it up to there being way less options for not sticking out like a sore thumb than to simply wanting to stay with your own kind or whatever.

Now that I feel like we're getting into a much larger issue instead of what was originally at hand, lemme just go back and summarize.....because we're now discussing a bunch of different things and I don't want it to seem like I'm debating anything other than what I originally was, as seems to happen on the interwebz too often:

You originally said "Lakeview is not a good area. Avoid it altogether", as well as quoted the list from Newsday. That's what took me by surprise....I disagree that it's not a good area and to be avoided, but the info on parolees and probationers is certainly valid and not something I would have been aware of otherwise. I think the Newsday list is totally bogus and in the interest of something that is a little more fact-driven, but not as hefty as the NY State Report Cards, here's where Malverne HS falls on the standard ranking of LI schools. I removed the ones that are so tiny that they aren't really relevant (ie: Shelter Island School). NOTE: The "standard ranking" is not my own invention, I just compiled that list from what is available on this website. This is absolutely flawed as well (% of students scoring above 85 on English + Global History + US History regents), but much better IMHO than just a name on a list.

W. Tresper Clarke High School (East Meadow).......................138.3
Shoreham-Wading River (Shoreham-Wading River)..................137.8
Long Beach High School (Long Beach)..................................136.7
Sewanhaka HS (Sewanhaka)....................................... .......136.3
Newfield High School (Middle Country)..................................135.7
Huntington High School (Huntington)....................................13 4.7
Sachem High School West (Sachem)....................................131.5
Malverne High School (Malverne)....................................130. 1
Sachem High School East (Sachem).....................................129.3
West Hempstead HS (West Hempstead)...............................129.2
Patchogue-Medford HS (Patchogue-Medford)........................127.9
Farmingdale High School (Farmingdale).................................127. 7
East Hampton High School (East Hampton)...........................125.7
West Babylon SHS (West Babylon)......................................125. 5
Lawrence High School (Lawrence).......................................1 24.8
Rocky Point High School (Rocky Point).................................123.2

Most of these schools get recommended constantly on these forums.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Rachael84

How is the area between Penninsula blvd and Sunrise highway? It's district 24, but I hear south Valley stream isn't that nice? We are seeing a house in this area on Sunday.

Good area. Gibson section of Valley Stream. SD#24. What did you think of the house?

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

Where did you find the Newsday article with Malverne on the list (wasn't sure if you were talking about Malverne or West Hempstead schools anymore)? I didn't remember either one of those being on it, thought maybe another new list had come out for '09.

You're right. I just checked. The latest list does not have Malverne. It consists of Elmont, Freeport, Hempstead, and Roosevelt for Nassau County.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

If I had to guess, I'd say any white people moving to Valley Stream currently are coming from already diverse neighborhoods in Brooklyn and Queens. I seriously doubt there are any more white Nassau/Suffolk natives moving there than there are moving to Lakeview. This is just a guess, of course.

Yes, there are white Valley Stream newbies coming in from other parts of Nassau and Suffolk. Younger people who are not bigoted and like the amenities in Valley Stream for the price.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I'm sure people in the Malverne SD are extremely concerned with improving the schools and community, if they've got that kind of monkey on their back they're never going to attract other families who have the same goal and the neighborhood will just sink....and the situation will repeat itself again and again.

if the goal is to improve the school district, not to live in one that doesn't need improving, then whoever they attract into the community will have the same goal. Personally, I don't recommend it and I don't feel sorry for people who bought into a bad deal. They should have done their homework first.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

Valley Stream has gone from being nothing but Italian and Jewish 15 years ago to a very diverse community today without many of the consequences that destroyed places like Roosevelt and Hempstead that suffered through white flight in the 50s/60s.

Racist real estate policies of greedy real estate brokers and salespeople like blockbusting (going door to door to white homeowners and telling them "the blacks are moving in" so you must move out) and steering (only showing blacks houses in certain neighborhoods -- the ones where the real estate agents were engineering white flight -- and pressuring them to buy there and not showing them houses in areas they wanted to keep "white") are what fueled the extreme white flight of those days.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

like you said yourself earlier in your post - LI is (one of if not) the most segregated suburb(s) in the nation.

Did you read that article? I couldn't believe it. And the South has a reputation as being racist and segregated. Ha. Not so. Our very own Long Island is the most segregated.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I can understand very easily why a white person would not want to move to Harlem.

Whites are moving there because they want to live in Manhattan and that is all some of them can afford. And guess who hates it? The current residents of Harlem who fear gentrification because it will raise the rents astronomically.

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

Now that I feel like we're getting into a much larger issue instead of what was originally at hand.

That always seems to happen on these boards ...

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

W. Tresper Clarke High School (East Meadow).......................138.3
Shoreham-Wading River (Shoreham-Wading River)..................137.8
Long Beach High School (Long Beach)..................................136.7
Sewanhaka HS (Sewanhaka)....................................... .......136.3
Newfield High School (Middle Country)..................................135.7
Huntington High School (Huntington)....................................13 4.7
Sachem High School West (Sachem)....................................131.5
Malverne High School (Malverne)....................................130. 1
Sachem High School East (Sachem).....................................129.3
West Hempstead HS (West Hempstead)...............................129.2
Patchogue-Medford HS (Patchogue-Medford)........................127.9
Farmingdale High School (Farmingdale).................................127. 7
East Hampton High School (East Hampton)...........................125.7
West Babylon SHS (West Babylon)......................................125. 5
Lawrence High School (Lawrence).......................................1 24.8
Rocky Point High School (Rocky Point).................................123.2

Most of these schools get recommended constantly on these forums.

They DO? By who? I wouldn't consider any of them as anything extra special and if someone posted and said they wanted to move into an excellent school district, I wouldn't recommend any one of them as outstanding or excellent. But then again, I am pickier than most.

PS: Creepy fun fact. Did you know that Joel Rifkin the serial killer claimed that being picked on in East Meadow's High School by uncontrolled bullies is what turned him into a serial killer? (NOT that I feel any sympathy for him, if he had ANY balls, if he felt like killing people he should have hunted down the bullies that tormented him, NOT murder prostitutes who weren't the ones who harassed him and already had a sad and pathetic existence anyway.)

[Rachael84]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Good area. Gibson section of Valley Stream. SD#24. What did you think of the house?

Needed work, like a whole new kitchen for example.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Rachael84

Needed work, like a whole new kitchen for example.

Unfortunately, that is very typical on Long Island. People sit for years in their houses and do nothing to them, then expect too much money when they are trying to sell. These days it doesn't work that way. A couple of years ago they could get suckers who were buying out of fear and greed ("if I don't get in now, I will never get in and the starter homes will be $1M soon!") enabled by shady mortgages. These days I wouldn't be afraid to laugh in their faces, estimate how much a new kitchen would cost and slash that right off the offering price. Take it or leave it! Leave it, and you may live here until you are dead and a skeleton!

[Rachael84]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Unfortunately, that is very typical on Long Island. People sit for years in their houses and do nothing to them, then expect too much money when they are trying to sell. These days it doesn't work that way. A couple of years ago they could get suckers who were buying out of fear and greed ("if I don't get in now, I will never get in and the starter homes will be $1M soon!") enabled by shady mortgages. These days I wouldn't be afraid to laugh in their faces, estimate how much a new kitchen would cost and slash that right off the offering price. Take it or leave it! Leave it, and you may live here until you are dead and a skeleton!

Good point. The owner has been in this house for 40 years, so most of the house looks like it hasn't been updated since the 70s or earlier, especially the kitchen.

But then you have short sales where the owners moved in with every intention of staying, so they upgrade. Now they can't pay the mortgage and the bank is making them sell. That's like one of the houses we bid on. It was really updated and they weren't asking for all too much.

[ckhthankgod]

What are the names of the High schools kids from Valley Stream go to?

Also, isn't Malverne a diverse school, that just happens to be mostly Black? I ask, because I noticed that Malverne itself isn't that diverse and I thought was mostly Italian.

Another thing I was thinking of in terms of the makeup of communities down there was that a lot of the communities aren't necessarily just racially segregated, which doesn't necessarily mean racism is prevalent, but many are ethnic communities too. Some of that comes from certain industries in a community, proximity to other communities, history and so on. So, the context of living patterns is also important to think about too. Some of it comes from things like redlining and blockbusting, but some comes from other factors.

For instance, there is a blue collar suburb in my area by the name of Solvay, that is very Italian and specifically Tyrolean. So, they also has some German influence, as well as some Polish/Slavic and Irish influence too. That is due to the Solvay Process Company(lated Allied Chemical) encouraging these immigrant groups to work at this plant. To this day, after some of the industry left, the community is pretty much similar to what it was decades ago.

[ckhthankgod]

By the way, I was wrong about where the West Indian influence came from. According to American FactFinder from the US Census, it said that in 2000, the last census, that 11.9% of Lakeview was Jamaican and 23.8% of the community was West Indian. Lakeview CDP, New York - QT-P13. Ancestry:**2000

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

What are the names of the High schools kids from Valley Stream go to?

There are three high schools in Valley Stream itself: Central, North and South. There are also some homes in Valley Stream that are zoned for Hewlett High School.

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Also, isn't Malverne a diverse school, that just happens to be mostly Black? I ask, because I noticed that Malverne itself isn't that diverse and I thought was mostly Italian.

For decades Malverne has had a solid middle class black presence. As for it being mostly Italian, I don't think so and cannot say with certainty the exact makeup of what types of whites are there. As for the schools, part of Malverne goes to Valley Stream District #13 instead of Malverne District #12, depending on where a home is located.

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Another thing I was thinking of in terms of the makeup of communities down there was that a lot of the communities aren't necessarily just racially segregated, which doesn't necessarily mean racism is prevalent, but many are ethnic communities too. Some of that comes from certain industries in a community, proximity to other communities, history and so on. So, the context of living patterns is also important to think about too. Some of it comes from things like redlining and blockbusting, but some comes from other factors.

Yes, that happens down here too, but really all I can think of are neighborhoods in New York City, where many immigrants first landed, rather than on Long Island, which is a place where people tended to branch out to.

Here's just a few in NYC that either were past magnets for certain ethnicities and/or are current magnets. Can anybody think of some on LI? I THINK there might have been a German one somewhere in Suffolk that actually still has a social club, but can't remember any details.

Greenpoint, Brooklyn (Polish)
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn (Russian)
Astoria, Queens (Greek)
Rosedale and Laurelton, Queens (many Caribbean immigrants now, Rosedale used to have a lot of Italian people)
Little Italy, Manhattan
Chinatown, Manhattan
Lower East Side, Manhattan (was a magnet area for new Jewish immigrants at the turn of the last century)
Harlem, Manhattan (blacks, particularly a professional and upper middle class black neighborhood in the 30's-40's-50's I think)
East Harlem, Manhattan (now also called Spanish Harlem because it has a lot of Hispanic residents, used to be a majority Italian neighborhood in the early 1900's)
South Richmond Hill, Queens (now has many Guyanese immigrants, particularly of East Indian descent)

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

For instance, there is a blue collar suburb in my area by the name of Solvay, that is very Italian and specifically Tyrolean. So, they also has some German influence, as well as some Polish/Slavic and Irish influence too. That is due to the Solvay Process Company(lated Allied Chemical) encouraging these immigrant groups to work at this plant. To this day, after some of the industry left, the community is pretty much similar to what it was decades ago.

That's an interesting story, but I can't think of any particular companies down here that drew a concentration of certain ethnic groups. Can anyone else?