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Pito, Thanks. Could you please explain how the particular runways are selected each day? I understand that the JFK tower manager selects the arrival & departures runways and NY TRACON selects the "paths" but take me behind the scenes for a typical day. I also understand that several airlines have a say in runway selection. What's the real story?
Pito, Thanks. Could you please explain how the particular runways are selected each day? I understand that the JFK tower manager selects the arrival & departures runways and NY TRACON selects the "paths" but take me behind the scenes for a typical day. I also understand that several airlines have a say in runway selection. What's the real story?
The tower manager does not normally get involved with daily operational decision making as their duties are mostly administrative in nature, although they can dictate policy. The "underlings" (e.g. traffic management coordinators, first line supervisors, cab coordinators, and controllers in charge) are usually involved in the process. The airlines (via the Air Transport Association) exert some political pressure. For example, many years ago JFK started to go to a 2 departure runway configuration (22s & 31L, 4s & 31L, 13s (depart 13L & R instead of just 13R)) whenever possible for the departure rushes due to their influence. Some of these configurations are more complex than what was originally done (especially if a lot of arrivals are thrown into the mix), and the net operational gain may be questionable. Unfortunately this is what happens when "outsiders" are allowed to dictate policy.
I might have mentioned some of the following information in a previous post, but there are several factors to consider when selecting runways and approaches. Ideally you would like to use the runways most closely aligned with the wind. However, if the winds are not that strong (there is or used to be a wind chart that gave the "legal" limits for each runway) an operational benefit may be gained by using different runways. For example JFK can run a lot more traffic on the 31s than on the 4s. If the wind was 010 degrees at 10 knots and it was going to be busy, then JFK would probably be on the 31s. If the wind was 030 degrees at 30 knots, then they would probably be on the 4s. There are many other factors to consider, e.g. construction (runways and or major taxiways closed), weather (visibility, ice/snow, thunderstorms, wind shear), the weather forecast, traffic volume, staffing (can you split certain positions when necessary?), runway configurations/approaches at neighboring airports (LGA), etc. In a previous post I mentioned that the noise abatement policy at JFK was to try to rotate the runways every 8 hours if operational conditions permit. What this usually meant was that the mid shift (which had the lightest traffic) might land 4R and depart 31L (this configuration poses problems for the departure controller and so it is not normally used outside of light traffic periods), the day shift (which had more traffic than the mid shift but less traffic than the swing (afternoon/evening) shift may be on the 4s or 22s, and then the busy swing shift could be on the 31s or 13s (& 22L) because these configurations have the most capacity. As I mentioned before, they will try to go to a 2 departure runway (3 runway) configuration for the departure rushes.
A couple of times per day there will be conference calls between the traffic management coordinator at the tower, NY Approach, NY Center, and Central Flow Control in Washington, D.C. and they will go over things like the weather forecast, construction impacts, equiptment outages, staffing issues, etc. Once the runway configuration and approach is determined (remember that NY Approach Control has the final say for runways and approaches to be used) an arrival rate will be set. If the weather is good and traffic can land on 2 runways, then JFK might be able to accept over 60 arrivals per hour. If the weather is lousy and there is only 1 arrival runway, then the rate might be 30 per hour. The rate can be achieved by delaying aircraft on the ground at their departure airports, the departure tower providing "X" miles of in trail separation to aircraft going to JFK, and/or airborne holding (the least desirable option). This arrival rate assumes a competent approach controller who will run a "tight final" (minimum legal separation) when it is busy. If this controller makes a habit of running 5 or 6 miles in trail when only 3 miles is required, then they will probably not last very long. With very high arrival rates, it will probably be necessary to run uncharted visuals on certain runways in order to survive.
It is important to understand that many different things can happen and no two days are ever alike, and what I described in the above paragraph is only a plan. The weather could turn out different from what was forecast, there could be an emergency, a taxiway or runway could close, equiptment could break, etc. When things happen rapidly and decisions have to be made, there will not necessarily be another conference call with Central Flow Control, etc. However there will be coordination with NY Approach, and again they will have the final say.
Last edited by Pito_Chueco; 07-29-2013 at 10:06 PM..
Pito, Wow that's a lot more involved then we were led to believe. Thanks. Back to the uncharted visuals approaches. Since pilots are being cleared for a visual approach 15 or so miles before the airport, can the controller vary the actual visual paths more frequently so that the same homes are not always being hit?
Good to see someone with a clue commenting here. I'm waiting with bated breath for the no doubt equally-informed retort from the "criminal, just criminal" side of the aisle
For residents in Whitestone, are you now, bothered by flligt noise???????? Please reply.
This is a direct result of an FAA departure change at Laguardia (without any mandated environmental studies or community input). This change severely impacted Whitestone and several other Queens communities. This change allowed the FAA to dramatically increase the arrivals into JFK 22L and severely impacting communities in Nassau County such as Mineola, Muttontown, Williston Park, Albertson, East Hills, East Williston, Stewart Manor, Garden City Park and Floral Park.
This is a direct result of an FAA departure change at Laguardia (without any mandated environmental studies or community input). This change severely impacted Whitestone and several other Queens communities. This change allowed the FAA to dramatically increase the arrivals into JFK 22L and severely impacting communities in Nassau County such as Mineola, Muttontown, Williston Park, Albertson, East Hills, East Williston, Stewart Manor, Garden City Park and Floral Park.
This is no excuse. Why can't they just use the old flight patterns from back in the 90's to early 00's before this constant 22L flight pattern? You're telling me there's absolutely no other flight pattern option aside from JFK's 22L? There has to be compromise here, there has to be other alternative options at the behast of the people below.
I don't live remotely near an airport and I'm getting bombarded constantly by planes. It's extremely annoying.
This is no excuse. Why can't they just use the old flight patterns from back in the 90's to early 00's before this constant 22L flight pattern? You're telling me there's absolutely no other flight pattern option aside from JFK's 22L? There has to be compromise here, there has to be other alternative options at the behast of the people below.
I don't live remotely near an airport and I'm getting bombarded constantly by planes. It's extremely annoying.
Because the other people whose houses they used to be flying over complained about the noise, so they had to change the flight patterns.
Because the other people whose houses they used to be flying over complained about the noise, so they had to change the flight patterns.
Which neighborhoods might I ask? Because it seems more reasonable to have flight patterns designated over lower socioeconomic or urban areas than affluent areas that I live around and I spent my good earned money living nearby. It used to be such a nice, quiet and peaceful residential neighborhood that has now turned into a mecca for constant bombardment of flights 24/7 even till the night. This is truly disgusting what they're doing and the posts here give the impression that there's absolutely no other alternative when I'm sure there is.
I have an idea, let's have the planes fly over areas based on median income salary or income tax. The crappier or less marginal areas get bombarded by more planes.
I would really like to know which areas were complaining pre-JFK flight pattern.
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