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14 hours (and counting) of non-stop overhead flights today. It's not a competition, but when other citizens in other states complain about airplanes every 2, or 5 minutes, I would love to have that problem. Anything other than 45 seconds to a minute is better. And TBH it's much less than that. The rumble never goes away. You start hearing the next aircraft as soon as the one prior fades away.
What would Frank Underwood do?
What other anti airplane noise groups are out there on the Island?
The graduated landing approach of NextGen (compared to step-down approaches) and streamlined (concentrated) approaches do boost efficiency by both decreasing the amount of low-altitude flying and reducing the time between landings (less circling, shorter flights, etc).
I could understand this concept, if, in fact, they were using the shortest distance to reach the airport.
However, I took some time to research some data, as well as over the past week watch flight patterns at different times throughout the day (via WebTrak), especially when there is a locked in pattern using one of the main targeted flight paths. For instance, arrivals via 22L. Using 2014 data, 65K arrivals entered the region using 22L, (~20% of 2014's total 400K flights), by flying via the arc pattern. The planes come from the NW region of NY (Hudson area), south past the airport, and loop up through eastern Nassau, 30-40 miles out, continuing the loop pattern up through the North Shore, before then descending down into the JFK area.
This to me reads as longer flights, more land to cover, at least for this runway and 20% of the arrivals via this runway as outlined in 2014. Also, what I've noticed is that the arrivals are flying ~2,000 feet as far out as the Suffolk border. An incredible increase in low flying, low altitude planes. I'm not a plane expert, but, what is the difference between a step down versus streamlined? And, what is the benefit of flying low altitude 30-40 miles out of the JFK region?
Thank you for your insightful reply, btw. You're quite knowledgeable on the topic. I've been advocating to local residents to report via WebTrak, contact Legislators, Senators, etc. This problem seems to be getting worse, rather than improving. And, to the poster who noted today was miserably bad--I agree.
These are my logged complaints just for this evening as I had dinner, watched television:
7:44 loud
7:48 loud
7:52 rumble
7:55 howl
7:57 louddddd
7:58 wind tunnel accelerating speed loud
7:59
8:01
8:03
8:05 bomb plane loud
8:09 howl piercing airbus
8:20 howl screetch
8:25 bomber plane sounding howl
8:27 rumble but sans the airbus howl
where I live, I get the landings going to LGA from the back of my house facing.....ugh !
and then the front, I see the take offs way in the distance from JFK, which is about a 30 minute drive from my house, anytime i am laying in bed watching TV at night i hear the dull low rumble of the takeoffs, it is low, i will give it that, but never the less it is a constant low dull rumble that never stops unless they take off from another runway.
By the time one plane is past the hearing time, the next one is right behind it. I see them way in the distance taking off, as I am on the 4th floor, i see the lights at night, one after the other........
I agree with you guys, how can looping around LI be saving fuel and time, I just dont get it.
I also would like to know why other states are suing the FAA, and here in NY, nothing.
Absolutely nothing. Our elected officials have done nothing, absolutely nothing. It has already been 4 years since nextgen was implemented and no studies or anything has been done.
Now we have the part 150 study that will take 3 years they say, but hello, 4 years have passed already....why wasnt the study done the second nextgen was implemented here?
Did anyone at the FAA ever think that flying planes every 30 seconds for 20 hours a day over our homes would bother anyone, or we would notice??????????????????????????????????????
What other anti airplane noise groups are out there on the Island?
There is Plane Sense 4 LI
Quiet Queens Skies
Nextgennoise.org -Not LI specific
Next Gen doesn't work for people on the ground under these flight paths pure and simple. Schumer and Gilibrand are too deep in bed with the airline industry. Airline lobbyists have deep pockets. All reasons why we are suffering the way we are.
RE: Mobil Visitor 09:
However, I took some time to research some data, as well as over the past week watch flight patterns at different times throughout the day (via WebTrak), especially when there is a locked in pattern using one of the main targeted flight paths. For instance, arrivals via 22L. Using 2014 data, 65K arrivals entered the region using 22L, (~20% of 2014's total 400K flights), by flying via the arc pattern. The planes come from the NW region of NY (Hudson area), south past the airport, and loop up through eastern Nassau, 30-40 miles out, continuing the loop pattern up through the North Shore, before then descending down into the JFK area.
Actually the numbers for 2014 were worse for communities under JFK's 22L arrival approaches. In 2014 22L got 60,019 of JKF's 213,287 overall arrivals. That's a staggering 28.14% of the overall arrivals even though JFK has 8 different runways!
Here are the stats from 2004 on
2004------14.5% ( 25,338 out of 174,599 overall JFK arrivals )
2005------22.8% ( 43,666 out of 190,933 overall JFK arrivals )
2006------21.1% ( 42,720 out of 202,482 overall JFK arrivals )
2007------22.2% ( 53,432 out of 240,581 overall JFK arrivals )
2008------28% ( 64,046 out of 228,987 overall JFK arrivals )
2009------28% ( 59,341 out of 213,219 overall JFK arrivals )
2010------EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH BAY RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
2011------31.9% ( 67,612 out of 211,576 overall JFK arrivals )
2012------29.2% ( 60,253 out of 206,172 overall JFK arrivals)
2013------31.6% ( 66,158 out of 208,963 overall JFK arrivals)
2014------28.1% ( 60,019 out of 213,287 overall JFK arrivals)
2015-----EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH 22R/4L RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
RE: Mobil Visitor 09:
However, I took some time to research some data, as well as over the past week watch flight patterns at different times throughout the day (via WebTrak), especially when there is a locked in pattern using one of the main targeted flight paths. For instance, arrivals via 22L. Using 2014 data, 65K arrivals entered the region using 22L, (~20% of 2014's total 400K flights), by flying via the arc pattern. The planes come from the NW region of NY (Hudson area), south past the airport, and loop up through eastern Nassau, 30-40 miles out, continuing the loop pattern up through the North Shore, before then descending down into the JFK area.
Actually the numbers for 2014 were worse for communities under JFK's 22L arrival approaches. In 2014 22L got 60,019 of JKF's 213,287 overall arrivals. That's a staggering 28.14% of the overall arrivals even though JFK has 8 different runways!
Here are the stats from 2004 on
2004------14.5% ( 25,338 out of 174,599 overall JFK arrivals )
2005------22.8% ( 43,666 out of 190,933 overall JFK arrivals )
2006------21.1% ( 42,720 out of 202,482 overall JFK arrivals )
2007------22.2% ( 53,432 out of 240,581 overall JFK arrivals )
2008------28% ( 64,046 out of 228,987 overall JFK arrivals )
2009------28% ( 59,341 out of 213,219 overall JFK arrivals )
2010------EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH BAY RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
2011------31.9% ( 67,612 out of 211,576 overall JFK arrivals )
2012------29.2% ( 60,253 out of 206,172 overall JFK arrivals)
2013------31.6% ( 66,158 out of 208,963 overall JFK arrivals)
2014------28.1% ( 60,019 out of 213,287 overall JFK arrivals)
2015-----EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH 22R/4L RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
Thanks for putting this together. All the while... 22L/4R IS the overflow runway. It magically turned into the primary arrival runway. Of course, 22L/4R being the farthest away from the terminals, and airplanes need to 'drive' to cross over 22R/4L. They're not exactly quick on wheels.
RE: Mobil Visitor 09:
However, I took some time to research some data, as well as over the past week watch flight patterns at different times throughout the day (via WebTrak), especially when there is a locked in pattern using one of the main targeted flight paths. For instance, arrivals via 22L. Using 2014 data, 65K arrivals entered the region using 22L, (~20% of 2014's total 400K flights), by flying via the arc pattern. The planes come from the NW region of NY (Hudson area), south past the airport, and loop up through eastern Nassau, 30-40 miles out, continuing the loop pattern up through the North Shore, before then descending down into the JFK area.
Actually the numbers for 2014 were worse for communities under JFK's 22L arrival approaches. In 2014 22L got 60,019 of JKF's 213,287 overall arrivals. That's a staggering 28.14% of the overall arrivals even though JFK has 8 different runways!
Here are the stats from 2004 on
2004------14.5% ( 25,338 out of 174,599 overall JFK arrivals )
2005------22.8% ( 43,666 out of 190,933 overall JFK arrivals )
2006------21.1% ( 42,720 out of 202,482 overall JFK arrivals )
2007------22.2% ( 53,432 out of 240,581 overall JFK arrivals )
2008------28% ( 64,046 out of 228,987 overall JFK arrivals )
2009------28% ( 59,341 out of 213,219 overall JFK arrivals )
2010------EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH BAY RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
2011------31.9% ( 67,612 out of 211,576 overall JFK arrivals )
2012------29.2% ( 60,253 out of 206,172 overall JFK arrivals)
2013------31.6% ( 66,158 out of 208,963 overall JFK arrivals)
2014------28.1% ( 60,019 out of 213,287 overall JFK arrivals)
2015-----EXCLUDED, NUMBERS SKEWED DUE TO FOUR MONTH 22R/4L RUNWAY CONSTRUCTION PROJECT
This is incredible. Thank you. And this is what it looks like on the ground, from above (see attached).
To boot, this is only one runway. Certain areas of Nassau County (and I'm sure Queens too), are being hit by departures from another highly used runway. I'm convinced at least 50% of the air traffic from JFK is flying within my region, 30 miles out of the airport. Data helps paint an illustrative picture, quantitatively, to support our qualitative reports. From a public health angle, appreciating the concentrated-by-design-flight paths this program has implemented, this is extremely disconcerting.
This is incredible. Thank you. And this is what it looks like on the ground, from above (see attached).
To boot, this is only one runway. Certain areas of Nassau County (and I'm sure Queens too), are being hit by departures from another highly used runway. I'm convinced at least 50% of the air traffic from JFK is flying within my region, 30 miles out of the airport. Data helps paint an illustrative picture, quantitatively, to support our qualitative reports. From a public health angle, appreciating the concentrated-by-design-flight paths this program has implemented, this is extremely disconcerting.
It looks terrible, and feels horrible. Can you tell us what the legend says on the image?
It looks terrible, and feels horrible. Can you tell us what the legend says on the image?
The Legend provides the following information:
1) Airport Boundary of JFK
2) County Boundary between Queens and Nassau (you can discern the N/S boundary line on the map)
3) "Backbone" Arrival Flight Tracks for JFK (the solid red tracks), 33 in total
4) Arrival Subtracks for JFK
The solid red tracks in the image, are the most frequently used "superhighways" in the sky, for 22L Arrivals.
The solid red lines, especially in this map, concentrate heavily within particular regions of Nassau and Queens (part of BK as well but to a lesser degree). As I've indicated in the past in my posts throughout the months here, which CRV helped illustrate with critical data, you'll note that this runway, which sees 28% of all of JFK's arrivals, is targeting SE Nassau, Eastern Nassau, NE Nassau, and then funnels into the Floral Park JFK descent corridor. Further, this is only one runway, and, only arrivals for said runway. You tack on arrivals and departures for other runways, and, this statistic becomes even more troublesome. It helps explain and validate items residents have been reporting.
The subtracks, from what I understand, are supplemental flight tracks that can be used in the event of weather, congestion, etc., but, are used less frequently. However, you'll also note the subtracks are very close to the main backbone tracks. In essence, concentrating these super highways into legitimate noise ghettos, ghettos that undeniably are creating public health issues that warrant further review.
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