secretive home listings ??? (mortgage, lawyer, buyer)
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Then why not do away with the whole laywer thing? It seems that it is just scare tactics and brainwashing from lawyers then to keep their pockets full...
"ooh, you better have a lawyer for your transaction to protect you, blah blah blah"
" you're foolish if you don't have lawyer handling the sale, blah blah blah"
Cut the lawyers out of the loop.
Are they truly necessary?
I know a few people who have done quite a bit of real estate transactions without lawyers involved. They do have a ton of experience though.
Then why not do away with the whole laywer thing? It seems that it is just scare tactics and brainwashing from lawyers then to keep their pockets full...
"ooh, you better have a lawyer for your transaction to protect you, blah blah blah"
" you're foolish if you don't have lawyer handling the sale, blah blah blah"
Cut the lawyers out of the loop.
Are they truly necessary?
I know a few people who have done quite a bit of real estate transactions without lawyers involved. They do have a ton of experience though.
In most areas of the country, there are no lawyers involved in real estate transactions. I have personally bought properties in other states and the process was very smooth. The real estate agent filled in the blanks on the contract at the point where the offer was made. If the seller accepted the offer he signed the contract. Basically, the whole binder stage was skipped.
At the closing, the title company handled the whole thing. After all, it is the title company and the bank who are on the hook if title does not passs properly.
There is no law that says that you have to have a lawyer to purchase or sell real estate. Here on Long Island, however, everyone has lawyers for everything. And, if the other guy has a lawyer, you feel like you have to have one too. It's really very inefficient and just adds to the cost of the transaction for all involved.
Theoretically I suppose there's no reason you couldn't BUY a house on LI without having a lawyer, as long as you were savvy enough to know what items in the contract of sale (which will have been drawn up by the sellers' lawyer) are detrimental to your interests and should be either modified or removed, and which missing items should be added to the contract in order to protect your interests. If not, then you'd have no one to blame but yourself for any unpleasant consequences. Also you'd need to know how and where to obtain title insurance for yourself and your bank (since the buyer's lawyer normally takes care of that).
However, there's no way a seller here can do without a lawyer because that's where the contract of sale originates. No realtor hereabouts is going to provide a contract of sale (way too much potential liability!!!!!) so unless you're comfortable with downloading some boilerplate form off the internet and hoping that it covers your butt in all respects as a seller (not likely), you'd be taking a huge risk.
Nobody likes having to pay the extra $1100 or so in legal fees for a closing but IMO better safe than sorry.
Nobody likes having to pay the extra $1100 or so in legal fees for a closing but IMO better safe than sorry.[/quote]
Most attorneys I have dealt with are not enamored of real estate agents/brokers. They feel that once they are involved, we (RE) are no longer needed in the process. That may be true to a point, as I do not have a legal degree, but the deal would not be happening without me to begin with, no? Many attorneys are rude to me on the phone (if I can get them on the phone) and will not listen when I tell them the client is our 'mutual' client (because I almost always represent my buyers as a Buyers Agent).
The attorney I most recommend is professional, knowledgeable, and down-to-earth. He has told me he does not understand other attorneys and why they feel they are better than others. He NEVER talks down to me, goes the extra mile in all of my deals, gets contracts out the same day I ask, is available til 11 p.m. when I need him, weekends too, and charges $1000 (which is reasonable).
Most attorneys I have dealt with are not enamored of real estate agents/brokers.
You got that right! The attorney I used to work for always referred to realtors in general as "wh*res and prostitutes". I did not agree with that view but knew it was wise for me to keep my differing opinion to myself.
Not that he didn't spread the bigotry around: He also looked down on women attorneys, often ranted that women should "never have been allowed" to be judges, and last but not least that women had no place on a golf course. His opinions of minorities are best not even hinted at.
Yet this guy had first a solid career at a very well-known Wall Street law firm and then opened up a thriving practice in Suffolk County doing foreclosures and closings. Go figure. (btw, he dropped dead of a heart attack in his late 50s so apparantly cosmic justice is still alive and well)
Most attorneys I have dealt with are not enamored of real estate agents/brokers. They feel that once they are involved, we (RE) are no longer needed in the process. That may be true to a point, as I do not have a legal degree, but the deal would not be happening without me to begin with, no? Many attorneys are rude to me on the phone (if I can get them on the phone) and will not listen when I tell them the client is our 'mutual' client (because I almost always represent my buyers as a Buyers Agent).
The attorney I most recommend is professional, knowledgeable, and down-to-earth. He has told me he does not understand other attorneys and why they feel they are better than others. He NEVER talks down to me, goes the extra mile in all of my deals, gets contracts out the same day I ask, is available til 11 p.m. when I need him, weekends too, and charges $1000 (which is reasonable).
No disrespect intended, nor is my opinion aimed at you personally, that's a rough business for an honest RE agent -no doubt! But, RE agents can't be/aren't held to the same standards of legally actionable accountability as RE lawyers. That's likely where the 'snobbery' derives. RE agents and RE lawyers are not equals/equal partners -not in the eyes of the legal system. The remedy/recourse options available to the client are quite different for the two professions.
Still, I can see your point. If they make their living through RE transactions then they ought to take into account who's bringing them the clients. They're dropping their bread on the floor buttered-side down.
Almost, actually, I think every sale contract I've seen has been the standard form kind you can download off the internet or buy at an office supply store.
Any changes are just penciled in, or crossed out, and intialed.
I don't care very much for lawyers.
If the rest of the country don't need them, then why should LI?
No disrespect intended, nor is my opinion aimed at you personally, that's a rough business for an honest RE agent -no doubt! But, RE agents can't be/aren't held to the same standards of legally actionable accountability as RE lawyers. That's likely where the 'snobbery' derives. RE agents and RE lawyers are not equals/equal partners -not in the eyes of the legal system. The remedy/recourse options available to the client are quite different for the two professions.
Still, I can see your point. If they make their living through RE transactions then they ought to take into account who's bringing them the clients. They're dropping their bread on the floor buttered-side down.
None taken, but I never said we were equal partners legally. I do not have a law degree. But I do have a Masters Degree. So next time one of them asks as if he/she (mostly the "he's" are nasty) is better than me, I will whip out my Masters Degree and we can compare years of schooling, etc.
Bottom line, a degree does not make one better than his peer.
The main reason that many attorneys and agents do not get along is because they have conflicting business models. A real estate attorney is in a high volume, low margin business. That is, they don't make much money on each transaction so they need to have a lot of volume. Agents, on the other hand, are in a relatively low volume high margin business. They don't have many deals, so the ones that they have they are extremely focused on.
Usually, what the agent most wants to know is the status of the contract, and to get some periodic reassurance that it is moving along as it should once it is in contract.
I try to get along with the attorneys by being helpful to them and by not being overly annoying. I tell each of them that it is my practice to call every Friday just to touch base. This way, they know that the call is comming and they know that I will be brief. I'll also try to get them any information that they need from the buyer or seller and will even offer to courrier the contracts around.
The main reason that many attorneys and agents do not get along is because they have conflicting business models. A real estate attorney is in a high volume, low margin business. That is, they don't make much money on each transaction so they need to have a lot of volume. Agents, on the other hand, are in a relatively low volume high margin business. They don't have many deals, so the ones that they have they are extremely focused on.
Usually, what the agent most wants to know is the status of the contract, and to get some periodic reassurance that it is moving along as it should once it is in contract.
I try to get along with the attorneys by being helpful to them and by not being overly annoying. I tell each of them that it is my practice to call every Friday just to touch base. This way, they know that the call is comming and they know that I will be brief. I'll also try to get them any information that they need from the buyer or seller and will even offer to courrier the contracts around.
This seems to work pretty well for me.
Tom, agreed. I "try" not to be annoying. I do not call weekly. Perhaps I should call on a regular basis, when they are expecting it. I always offer my services to expedite things, including acting as a courier. I go out of my way to be polite and respectful since I know the attorneys can kill a deal if they want, and I do offer to help in any way. Some are responsive, many are not.
This is why I offer my clients the names of 3 attorneys I like to work with. It seems that the deals that have troubles are the ones with an attorney I do not know. Hey, maybe I get what I am expecting. Who knows?!?!
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I do not have a law degree. But I do have a Masters Degree. So next time one of them asks as if he/she (mostly the "he's" are nasty) is better than me, I will whip out my Masters Degree and we can compare years of schooling, etc. 
