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I am closing on a "handyman" house in Nassau in 3 weeks (1500+ sq ft. 1950's Ranch). Inspection went well - roof is 10yrs old and has maybe another 10. House is oil, but furnace was replaced in 2002 - can live with that for while. Water heater is electric and it's 15 years old - I want to replace with something very efficient. Bathrooms are fine (looks like they were remodeled at some point), but kitchen is original (my wife is adamant about major renovation here). Windows were replaced and have at least 5-10yrs left. So if I have a budget of 40k and a DIY attitude, can I get the following done?
a) New water heater (high efficiency gas/tankless/electric pump - what's the best bang for the buck on LI?)
b) New high efficiency appliances
c) Bring gas to the house for stove/dryer & possibly water heater (keyspan has said they will run the line to the foundation for free, but licensed plumber required to run pipe will be a cost factor)
d) new kitchen cabinets (probably will buy kraftmaid from consumers, I have someone who will do labor at reasonable price)
d) New Paint all rooms ( I have friends who will help with this as well)
e) ripping up old carpets and having original floor underneath redone (I've seen what's underneath the carpet and it looks very good)
f) New exterior doors/possibly frames
That's my list - anyone have any opinions? I know it's a lot, but we're just waiting for closing and it helps a lot to get your thoughts out "on paper"!
A lot will depend on the quality (cost) of the materials you pick. For instance there's a fairly large price range within just the Energy Star appliances alone. You can choose a Kenmore dishwasher for $400 or a Miele dishwasher for $900 or anything in between (not to mention the models sold at Lowe's which are probably a little less than the Kenmores).
Kitchen cabinets are also a huge field pricewise. Just don't dismiss the smaller cabinet places, especially those that make their own; see those places last after going to Consumers, Lowe's, etc and see what they can do as far as bang for the buck. Remember too that all those fancy add-on goodies such as pullout shelves, lazy susans, glass cabinet fronts, etc etc add $$$$ to the total that is way out of proportion to the value of the use you'll probably get out of them. If you're on a tight budget you should really pass on options like that.
As for painting, don't skimp on paint quality. Benjamin Moore is your best bet and they have a brand-new line of premium latex called "Ben" for which you won't need a primer; it will cover beautifully by itself in 2 coats. If you're making a really dramatic color change, such as white over dark brown or dark red, go for their ultra-premium Aura line. It's more per gallon but it also "goes further" when you apply it. You can also do the first coat of the color in "Ben" and the second in "Aura" (since Aura is the most expensive).
Hardwood floor refinishing will vary also. My nephew got estimates ranging from $2100 to $4800 for the exact same job (sand/stain/2 coats poly)! If the floors are in really good condition under the carpet you may be able to get away with just a screen-and-recoat instead of a full sanding takedown. It will be considerably cheaper and much less messy too. But be aware that screening does not remove any scratches, gouges, color changes, etc; all it does is remove the top layer of poly and replace it with a fresh coat.
Best to replace the entire exterior door (including frame) because unless you replace with the same brand as the existing one (for instance Therma-Tru with a new Therma-Tru) the new door hinges probably won't fit into the existing frame cuts. If the door has been there a long time there also could be warping.
We've never lived in a house with gas so I can't give any advice on costs there, sorry.
But overall it's safe to say that plumbing work of any type (gas, oil, or water) tends to be expensive!
May I ask why you want to bring natural gas to the house for the stove, dryer and water heater? Is it because you want to avoid the cost of electric for the 2 appliances and extra fuel oil for the water? IMO it might be more cost effective for you to look into propane for the stove and dryer than what it would cost to hook up to Keyspan and pay their rates. I have seen several houses that had propane for those 2 items and oil for heat/hot water. Your choices for oil fired hot water heating would be tankless coil, indirect fired storage tank, and separate direct fired water heater/tank. Again a wide range of quality and price for the tank setups; Bock is the best (IMO) for any kind of hot water tank but the price will reflect that.
$40K is not a big budget when you have to figure in kitchen cabinetry (even with a reasonably priced installer) countertops, flooring and paint -- nevermind all the other goodies on your wish list.
Gas line -- I have a natural gas stove and dryer. My bill is $20 a month. I would focus on getting the gas line to the house and invest in the plumber's services for the inside. Running an electric stove and electric dryer will eat up a lot of electric. You'll recoup the plumber's cost in a reasonable period of time.
(FWIW I had propane at the house I rented to run the stove and dryer. I prefer having natural gas to propane. I ran out of propane once or twice -- very inconvenient.)
I would address all other mechanicals which concern you especially when the plumber is present. I have oil hot water heat, and inquired about a demand heater. I had installed quite a crazy shower with all sorts of massage heads and what not, we would drain the hot h2o in no time flat. For my needs, he said no to the demand heater. I now have an indirect hot water heater and a huge storage tank -- we have yet to run out of hot water -- showers, dishwasher and hot water wash on at the same time. If you have an oil burner, keep your hot water on oil. Convert the WHOLE shebang when your furnace is on it's way out.
For a budget kitchen reno, I have had clients opt for Home Depot, Lowes and Ikea.
Consumers is looking for suckers! Please don't take offense, but the mark up for someone walking in off the street vs. someone who buys from them through their contractor is insane.
1) I have had clients quoted on average 65% more than my price.
2) If there is any problem, i.e. piece missing/damaged/incorrect, you can end up waiting as long for one piece as you did for the entire kitchen worth of cabinetry.
Smaller shops give you better customer service. If you're without a kitchen for 4-6 weeks, take out gets real old, fast!
If you want to send me a dm, I can give you the name of a person who handles a wide line of cabinetry to suit various budgets. I've had many pleased clients.
If your cabinet boxes are well made, your kitchen configuration livable, I would suggest refacing and getting new countertops and floor. Live in the house for a while before making significant, expensive changes. Address important repairs before spending money on aesthetic issues.
My own personal experience is that we moved into our house and immediately gutted the kitchen. Having lived with this kitchen, there are things I would have done differently.
If the wood floors look good -- you want to see them all in their entirety, not just a spot here or there -- pet stains, burns, bad patch jobs could be hidden -- definitely have them refinished. Better to do that now, before you have all of your furniture, clothes and belongings in the house.
You're creating more work ($) replacing a door blank as opposed to the entire exterior door unit. You can order the unit to fit into the rough door opening, install, trim out. It will be much more efficient against cold winter air as opposed to replacing a blank and having to work it to fit an existing door frame. If the door frame has issues, your new door might ultimately have them, too.
In addition to the tax credit you will be eligible for by purchasing this year, there is tax deductibility to be had for new insulation, windows, doors. Bear that in mind and keep your receipts for your 2009 tax return.
May I ask why you want to bring natural gas to the house for the stove, dryer and water heater? Is it because you want to avoid the cost of electric for the 2 appliances and extra fuel oil for the water? IMO it might be more cost effective for you to look into propane for the stove and dryer than what it would cost to hook up to Keyspan and pay their rates. I have seen several houses that had propane for those 2 items and oil for heat/hot water. Your choices for oil fired hot water heating would be tankless coil, indirect fired storage tank, and separate direct fired water heater/tank. Again a wide range of quality and price for the tank setups; Bock is the best (IMO) for any kind of hot water tank but the price will reflect that.
I was thinking natural gas because I never really seen a propane stove or dryer before. I also feel electric is the most overpriced on LI, so my goal is to upgrade those to natural gas. I will look into propoane and an oil fired electric though. That sounds like it could work out and save me a lot on installation costs. How is the cost of propane vs natural gas?
I was thinking natural gas because I never really seen a propane stove or dryer before. I also feel electric is the most overpriced on LI, so my goal is to upgrade those to natural gas. I will look into propoane and an oil fired electric though. That sounds like it could work out and save me a lot on installation costs. How is the cost of propane vs natural gas?
Thanks,
Rick
Keyspan cost for my family of 4: heavy use of a natural gas dryer, and cooking most nights with the gas stove $20 per month.
I have a back up propane tank at my second home. It is used to run an emergency back up generator. Last year I paid over $400 to fill it. Mind you, this was only for the back up generator. It self tests once a week for 10 minutes.
Great responses here - thanks guys! Exactly the kind of info I was looking for.
Regarding Consumers - I DID get a sketchy feeling when I discussed my renovation with the store manager - so we'll start shopping local places too.
Anyway, since I do have someone who's going to give good deal on labor, I may save enough to get the plumber to do the gas (I won't mind spending $20 a month or so for the gas stove/dryer), and thanks for the tip about the oil fired hot water - that makes good sense as well.
The big issue will be the kitchen. You are right in that we should wait before making big renovations. The problem is it's really not "usable" for us right now. We DID go to PC Richard last week and purchased all the appliances we would need. They had a great employee pricing sale that saved us at least $500 not including the LIPA rebates. We spent under 6k w/ tax for all the kitchen appliances (in stainless!) including the washer dryer -and wasn't any low level stuff either. I don't have to take delivery until I move and I can exchange/return anything in the meantime, so ther's no downside (put only 1k down).
So far, I'm thinking I'll rip out the carpets myself, have the floors done right away, and then the have the painters come in before we move our stuff in. I'll purchase a couple of temporary propane burners for cooking (the electric range there now is kind of gross) and we'll "feel out" the kitchen for a few weeks before we decide on the renovations. That will also give keyspan time to hook up the gas line to the foundation, and to find a reputable plumber. I'll have the plumber hook up the stove, dryer and discuss the oil fired hot water - hopefully I can find someone who'll offer a good deal for everything. In the meantime we'll have the doors/frames replaced and any other odds and ends.
The good part is everything is sale now, the bad is money is tight for us right now and I can't eat into our emergency fund for renovations. I have to come in as close to budget as I can!
my gas bill for february was like $140, and thats with gas everything.. stove, furnace, water heater, and heat (hot water). i also have a gas dryer but didnt use it that month because it wasnt working, but thats not going to make much of a difference, id probly do like 4 loads a month at most. gas is cheaper than propane, and theres no tank to run out on you..
We DID go to PC Richard last week and purchased all the appliances we would need.
Just curious, did you also go to Plessers in Babylon with all of your other appliance quotes? Because everyone I know (including myself) has done that for at least the last 10 years and in every case they met (and usually beat) the prices given by PC Richard. Their installers are great too (no subcontractors, they have their own people).
But since it sounds like you're already past the 3-day order cancellation window, it's probably too late for you to switch ... though if PC Richard has a "beat the competition" policy you could always still get quotes from Plessers and take them back to PCR to see if they will lower their price further.
Renovations can certainly be done on a small budget. Don't get wrapped up in thinking you need all the bells & whistles. Just remember how many people overextended themselves & sucked every dime of imaginary equity out of their homes to have high end cabinets, stainless steel appliances & the almighty granite counters. Now they are upside down & can't sell their overpriced house to save their lives. Priority #1, live within your means.
We LOVE doing renovations on a shoestring budget ( and FTR my record my husband builds multimillion dollar homes in the Hamptons for a living) we like being frugal.
Here's my kitchen before-the house was a vacant wreck with severe water damage
The kitchen before was only 9 ft wide & disgusting
Here's my kitchen after total cost $5,000
we removed a wall, changed all of the electrical & plumbing, new "stock" cabinets from home depot ( not the assemble them yourself line), custom formica counters, white appliances-some were scratch & dent-others discontinued models, new flooring, sheetrock-including building custom soffits to make the regular height cabinets look more custom with the high ceiling, trim. We are just approaching our 5 year anniversary in our home & the kitchen looks exactly the same & has served us very well. We host all of the holidays-I cook dinner for 25 people on Thanksgiving in that kitchen every year, I can't imagine how spending more money would make it better.
I like what you did with the molding, paint and hi-hats there. My wife's brother installs hi-hats and will do them for free for us. We're living at my parents house until closing, and they have all cheap appliances and re-surfaced cabinets - I don't know what the countertop is made of (some orange looking thing!). They cook every night and never notice that they don't have granite and all the other stuff. That being said, I couldn't steer my wife away from the stainless steel appliances. She had her heart set and she works hard so....
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