Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-09-2009, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPool1998 View Post
First, the nature of the problem is the unreasonable tax burden placed on the people paying for these salaries and benefits.

Second, that burden is unreasonable because private sector pay has stagnated and/or dropped over the last 35 years.

Third, we aren't blaming those failing to pay private sector employees, despite the fact that productivity has increased every year since the early 1970s. Instead, we point our fingers at those who make more than the private sector employees.

Seems to me, people should be paid enough to pay their taxes. You don't reduce the quality and extent of public service in order to meet the deteriorating means of the tax paying public.
I understand what you are saying, but how can we force private industry to raise pay and benefits for their workers? It is "private" industry after all. The government cannot force them to pay a certain wage or give certain benefits and the government also fails to penalize them for putting hundreds of thousands out of work every month. The only way would be a massive unionization effort and as unions are not popular and sometimes tend to go overboard and have too much power, I don't see that happening.

The way it is with the economy and the effects of globalization, where private industry can use all the resources of the infrastructure WE paid for with our tax dollars, and then ship the jobs overseas to low wage markets with no penalties at all, is putting the private sector worker squarely in the crosshairs: expected to pay the taxes so that corporations can reap the benefits of our infrastructure, yet given no jobs or jobs at declining wages and benefits. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg with offshoring IMO. These days are GOOD compared to what is coming. In which case, public sector employees will have to go with the times like everybody else. Sorry, we can't afford it any longer. These days many people are not even finding a job, such as attorneys. These days many people are making a lot less than they used to, such as doctors (HMOs limit what they will reimburse and are squeezing the doctors harder than ever).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:08 PM
 
23 posts, read 57,956 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by azzurrony View Post
Tubafish,

I think a PAC is a great idea. Clearly, the amount of angry taxpayers in LI far exceeds the union clans. We just have to make our voice heard. But, we need a good young reform minded candidate. The question is who?
I'll do it. I'm about to turn 27, I have a Bachelor's in English and I'm about to go to business school in Stony Brook. I'm a Captain in the US Army (recently switched over from Active duty to the Reserves, after living in western Europe for a few years) and also a veteran of the Iraq war. I was born in Huntington Hospital. I consider myself more of a mild conservative who believes that while abortion should be allowed in moderation, large government-run programs, while noble, usually make matters worse. I live in Greenlawn, I'm about to get married and look for a house, but it's difficult with all the high prices. I go to church, and I believe that zealots who promote hatred by pointing to their Bibles are anything but Christian. I'm sure Jesus would have had a field day with the likes of Falwell or the Westboro Baptist Church.

I was interested in working for the Suffolk County Police (with an aim for the emergency services unit, relying on my patrolling and demolitions experience). I scored very high on the test, but they turned me down this year because Levy doesn't have enough budgeted to hire new, more experienced (out-of-the-box) officers - only enough to maintain the exorbitant pensions of tired old ones.

I'd go after Levy's position in a heartbeat during elections, but I think I should probably start politics at a smaller level. I don't have a lot of government experience, besides being a de facto mayor of a small district within a war-torn Iraqi city for a short time.

I'll tell you what, though: I'll gladly lead you people right out of this mess, if you don't mind me completely consolidating all the public schools in the county, dropping the SCPD salary, and turning around the decision about using the Sheriff's department for a job they're not meant to do (highway patrol). My fiancee would hunt me down for the school consolidation part (she's a new teacher), but after reading a comparative analysis of education within Suffolk and Nassau against the likes of Fairfax, VA, I was shocked at Long Island's unnecessary excess.

In short, my term might not be comfortable for a lot of Long Islanders, and without support, the unions and administrators are going to do their best to bring me down hard, and fast.

One thing I always asked my NCOs before planning a mission - what should I think about before we begin this mess?

- V

Last edited by gt776; 06-09-2009 at 02:34 PM.. Reason: Typo.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:20 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,996,125 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt776 View Post
I'll do it. I'm about to turn 27, I have a Bachelor's in English and I'm about to go to business school in Stony Brook. I'm a Captain in the US Army (recently switched over from Active duty to the Reserves, after living in western Europe for a few years) and also a veteran of the Iraq war. I was born in Huntington Hospital. I consider myself more of a mild conservative who believes that while abortion should be allowed in moderation, large government-run programs, while noble, usually make matters worse. I live in Greenlawn, I'm about to get married and look for a house, but it's difficult with all the high prices. I go to church, and I believe that zealots who promote hatred by pointing to their Bibles are anything but Christian. I'm sure Jesus would have had a field day with the likes of Falwell or the Westboro Baptist Church.

I was interested in working for the Suffolk County Police (with an aim for the emergency services unit, relying on my patrolling and demolitions experience). I scored very high on the test, but they turned me down this year because Levy doesn't have enough budgeted to hire new, more experienced (out-of-the-box) officers - only enough to maintain the exorbitant pensions of tired old ones.

I'd go after Levy's position in a heartbeat during elections, but I think I should probably start politics at a smaller level. I don't have a lot of government experience, besides being a de facto mayor of a small district within a war-torn Iraqi city for a short time.

I'll tell you what, though: I'll gladly lead you people right out of this mess, if you don't mind me completely consolidating all the public schools in the county, and turning around the decision about using the Sheriff's department for a job they're not meant to do (highway patrol). My fiancee would hunt me down for school consolidation part (she's a new teacher), but after reading a comparative analysis of education within Suffolk and Nassau against the likes of Fairfax, VA, I was shocked at Long Island's unnecessary excesses.

In short, my term might not be comfortable for a lot of Long Islanders, and without support, the unions and administrators are going to do their best to bring me down hard, and fast.

One thing I always asked my NCOs before planning a mission - what should I think about before we begin this mess?

- V
I think you wouldn't get my vote. The Levy decision to put Sheriffs on the Highway was a wise one. We don't need to pay cops 120K to patrol the LIE..it's just not feasible anymore in this economy. Sounds like you wish you could join the ranks of the SCPBA....I can't really blame you considering what a goldmine it is, but SCPD compensation is part of the problem on LI...working to turn back Levy's decision is going the wrong way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:24 PM
 
23 posts, read 57,956 times
Reputation: 14
I'd drop the salaries of the SCPD as well. Once that happens, spending the cash on the extra training classes for sheriffs wouldn't make that much sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,240,130 times
Reputation: 7338
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt776 View Post
turning around the decision about using the Sheriff's department for a job they're not meant to do (highway patrol).
Why can't Sheriff's do highway patrol? What are they specifically meant to do? I know around here they handle prisoners and they do things like evict people, etc., but in other areas they patrol highways too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:28 PM
 
23 posts, read 57,956 times
Reputation: 14
Sure, they can do highway patrol. They're doing a decent job now, in my opinion.

However, it was my understanding that they were being used on the highway because we don't want/need as many SCPD officers on the payroll. If I'm able to bring down the SCPD salary back to reasonable levels, there's no reason to keep the sheriffs doing what was originally the SCPD's job in the first place, is there?

Last edited by gt776; 06-09-2009 at 02:30 PM.. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:42 PM
 
13,507 posts, read 16,996,125 times
Reputation: 9688
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt776 View Post
Sure, they can do highway patrol. They're doing a decent job now, in my opinion.

However, it was my understanding that they were being used on the highway because we don't want/need as many SCPD officers on the payroll. If I'm able to bring down the SCPD salary back to reasonable levels, there's no reason to keep the sheriffs doing what was originally the SCPD's job in the first place, is there?

I think tacking SCPD off the highways cut back overtime drastically..no cops got laid off, but of course they can hire less if Highway cops aren't needed.

If you think cutting SCPD compensation is going to be easy, you need to do a little more research. The Taylor law which makes it illegal for essential public employees to strike(cops, MTA, teachers), also has created a system where local PD's feed off each other in a constantly increasing spiral of compensation increases in arbitration. Why not dissolve SCPD through attrition and simply make the SC Sheriffs the police force..period? They train in the same academy. It's all just a question of semantics trying to get to the same place. There's no reason that we can't have a professional police force making 75K base instead of 98K base after 5 years. With overtime, that's still a great salary and would draw thousands more applicants than were needed to fill spots.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 02:50 PM
 
23 posts, read 57,956 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Why not dissolve SCPD through attrition and simply make the SC Sheriffs the police force..period? They train in the same academy. It's all just a question of semantics trying to get to the same place. There's no reason that we can't have a professional police force making 75K base instead of 98K base after 5 years. With overtime, that's still a great salary and would draw thousands more applicants than were needed to fill spots.
Great point - and that's a good idea. Are Sheriffs not covered under the Taylor Law? And if they aren't, what prevents the Sheriff's department from lobbying to be included under that law, eventually becoming what the SCPD is now within ~20 years?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 03:30 PM
 
964 posts, read 2,457,982 times
Reputation: 389
GT776

First off, thank you for your service to our country. It is people like you that still give me hope that this country has a future.

Unfortunately, people around here still think that private companies can RAISE their compensation/benefits so easily. They clearly don't understand economics. We are in a Global Economy and we cannot compete with the cost of labor overseas as it is. Protectionism isn't the answer...that stagnates an economy even worse...as any Economist worth his position will tell you. So, companies have to be cost effective on many levels and can't afford the days of full pensions and fat benefits. Those days are over for the private sector and now they must end for the public sector. Any thoughts otherwise is simple dreaming. Please look at Europe as an example. They have FAT public and private sector benefits. They are in shambles. Their unemployment is staggering and they have no future. They lack innovation and will be eaten alive in the global marketplace. I'm afraid countries like France and my home of Italy will be nothing more than TOURIST destinations in a decade or two.

Research and development, innovation, and free enterprise are what will drive this country forward. Unfortunately, here on a local level, before we can get those things we have to start cutting the public sector fat.

I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Dman is correct...Republicans have let us down on LI just as much as Democrats have. They are all in the union clan pockets. So, we need a candidate that will rise above that all and put an end to this.

Last edited by azzurrony; 06-09-2009 at 03:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2009, 03:35 PM
 
964 posts, read 2,457,982 times
Reputation: 389
One last point re: School district consolidation

This is a losing battle. No politician will ever win on this platform. It is a hot button issue and Long Islanders would vote against it in droves everytime.

Our focus should be on:

1. Consolidation of sewer, water, garbage, and other town services that people don't feel need to be "local" in nature.

2. Cuts in teacher compensation and administrator positions at the local school board level

3. Cuts in police and fire compensation in both Nassau and Suffolk

And that's just for starters..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:



Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New York > Long Island
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:07 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top