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Awww its so cute that some people think that stricter gun control laws will lessen crime. Compare NYC, with strict laws, with rural upstate NY counties, like say Cattarauguas or Chenango or St Lawrence. Places where everybody and thier grandmother, and thier grandmothers dog, are packing heat. And how many murders per year are there in those areas? Huh? Good people with guns dont kill people. Trashy people with guns kill people. And if the trashy people don't have guns they'll just use a knife. Or a screwdriver. Or a rock. Or a pencil. Or a.....
Yes, generally speaking towns with like...10 people...have less crime than towns with 8 million people. Duh.
Me? I do my killing with a paper clip.
Can you provide a link to the DOJ study? I saw those numbers throw aroung by Kleck and the gun lobby. I also read from the other side how those numbers are garbage.
I can't find DOJ or FBI studies that support this position, only pages and pages of "studies" conducted by spin doctors from right and left aimed at advancing their agendas.
I'm prepared to drink the Kool-Aid, but I need to sugar it up with data from credible, independent sources first.
Looks like the National Crime Victimization Survery 1992-1998 but DOJ doesn't have it on its website. There latest posted values are lacking in any resolution to crime stats.
But statistically there are roughly 10 million property crimes and 1.3 million violent crimes in the US in 2008 for a rough total of 11.3 million crimes per year. 40% of the US has a gun in the home, but a defensive brandishing of a gun equalling 2 million times is only 17.7%, so statistically it is completely plausible.
Looks like the National CrimeVictimization Survery 1992-1998 but DOJ doesn't have it on its website. There latest posted values are lacking in any resolution to crime stats.
But statistically there are roughly 10 million property crimes and 1.3 million violent crimes in the US in 2008 for a rough total of 11.3 million crimes per year. 40% of the US has a gun in the home, but a defensive brandishing of a gun equalling 2 million times is only 17.7%, so statistically it is completely plausible.
NCVS seems to be the impartial soucrce I was looking for. Unfortunately, like you, I did not see any statistics resolved. This Wiki post does reference the NCVS (see the "Self-Protection" Header) as finding that over 2.6M crimes/yr are commited with a gun. Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It also cites the pro and anti-gun lobby spin, which as I mentioned is not interesting to me.
However, I disagree on the plausibility of 17.7% of all violent and property crimes involving a defensive gun brandishing. Criminals are pretty sneaky. The number of times a person witnesses a crime, is in possesion of a gun at the time, and confronts the crook has to be minimal compared to the number of times a wallet is stolen, a mailbox is vandalized, a security guard nabs a shoplifer, etc. I'd move the decimal point to the left a few places on that percentage.
All I know is that the draconian gun laws in New York and on Long Island really discourage me from going there. I would love to take a trip to LI, but as it stands now I don't feel like being a criminal.
NCVS seems to be the impartial soucrce I was looking for. Unfortunately, like you, I did not see any statistics resolved. This Wiki post does reference the NCVS (see the "Self-Protection" Header) as finding that over 2.6M crimes/yr are commited with a gun. Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. It also cites the pro and anti-gun lobby spin, which as I mentioned is not interesting to me.
However, I disagree on the plausibility of 17.7% of all violent and property crimes involving a defensive gun brandishing. Criminals are pretty sneaky. The number of times a person witnesses a crime, is in possesion of a gun at the time, and confronts the crook has to be minimal compared to the number of times a wallet is stolen, a mailbox is vandalized, a security guard nabs a shoplifer, etc. I'd move the decimal point to the left a few places on that percentage.
I think we're using two seperate values here, which is going to lead to problems. Use of a weapon would be considered a violent crime IIRC (armed robbery, attempted murder, etc) and your stat shows twice the number of violent crime as my stat.
As for defensive useage, I think it is within the realm of possibility to be correct to a certain degree, at least for the hypothetical purposes we are argueing without a full set of data to argue over.
All I know is that the draconian gun laws in New York and on Long Island really discourage me from going there. I would love to take a trip to LI, but as it stands now I don't feel like being a criminal.
Well, if you can't go on a vacation without bringing a gun, we don't want ya.
I notice that there are alot more shootings on long island, compared to the rest of NY, why doesn't long island just assimilate the laws NYC has regarding firearms?
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More Guns, Less Crime
