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Pretty ridiculous comments. Just shows how self-absorbed and entitled the LI teachers on this forum are. If a family of two teachers (~200k) can't afford a very nice house in a top-notch school district, they need to stop eating out at fancy restaurants everyday, stop taking the 3-months long exotic vacations, stop buying 50k cars. They may not be able to afford the 1 million house in roslyn, but very easily a beautiful house half that price. Now, they think they are not paid enough because they can't buy the million dollar houses in the same school district they teach... only LI teachers...
I am not a teacher. Never have been a teacher. Wife not a teacher.
Retired Exec with a medium-sized LI Corp. Living now on a fixed income.
I received the Sibson reports every year showing salaries & benefits for various professions. I was involved with setting up compensation/benefits packages for the Co., and, except for the Pensions, my former Co's benefits & salary scale far exceeded what teachers in any district get. Those benefits & salaries were based upon those reports - keeping them in line with what professionals in the area get paid generally. Plus in a Co. employees have things like Profit Sharing, stock options, etc., that a public employee does not have.
What 3 month exotic vacation has any teacher taken? EVER? Even if they leave the day school ends, there are still less than 3 months until school starts again. So a 3 month vacation is Impossible! On their salaries, any EXPENSIVE vacation is impossible.
I've taken a couple of expensive vacations since I retired. I can tell you that were were NO TEACHERS on the trips with me. Couldn't afford it.
What teacher has a $50,000 car? Maybe the one their father bought them? Certainly not one they bought for themselves - just doesn't happen. But look at the high tech Company lots on LI - you'll see lots of them.
What teacher eats out every night? Maybe there are a few - a small minority. Those I know come home & have families & the families eat at home most of the time.
The point was, as pointed out in a later thread, that a teacher doesn't have to be able to live IN the District, but in the AREA OF the District. And as presently structured on LI - considering salaries, cost of living & housing, etc., a teacher cannot do so unless they have two incomes.
That is how it is for most LIers, but those who are Professionals, like Drs, Lawyers, Accountants, etc., have a much better chance of earning enough to be able to live in the area on one salary than on two. A teacher simply cannot.
LI public school teachers are trade unionists NOT white collar professionals
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Why is it "outrageous" for teachers to make enough money to live in the District in which they teach?
Problem is, they CAN'T! In most cases.
Just look at median or average housing prices in a few towns in NAssau. Port Washington, for example, the median price is $612,000, and the Average is $1.4 million (Skewed by a few super expensive Sands Point Homes). Roslyn is $828,000 Median and 1.1 Mil average. These are towns where people with equivalent education to teachers often live - people with a Graduate degree. No teacher can afford to live there unless the teacher is not the primary income producer. $150,000 per year just won't buy a $600,000 house!
Even some cheaper towns on Long Island are impossible: Long Beach has a Median of $437.000. Nope - $150,000/yr won't cut it there. Merrick $438,000. Not there either.
Keep dreaming. I work in a fancy part of Manhattan. Shouldn't I be paid enough to live in the neighborhood I work in? I will need a 7 figure paycheck. I deserve it just because I am well educated and work in that neighborhood.
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So why should someone who chooses to be a teacher have to accept a salary that will not allow them to live like others similarly educated?
The "system" is still "antiquated" in many ways - going back to the time of most teachers being women, mostly married, and mostly living off their husbands' salaries. Tis not like that anymore as we all know.
I don't know what you are talking about with that comment. The salaries of teachers on LI have certainly appreciated well beyond that of the schoolmarm who is working for pin money. So you are saying they are still not getting enough when many make twice the median FAMILY INCOME around here? Unbelievable.
I also notice you never even acknowledge that private school teachers also work on LI ... for way less than public school teachers do in compensation and benefits. They must not starve to death, right. (NOT that I am advocating cutting public school teacher salary, but come on here, they're teachers too and parents even pay EXTRA to put their children in their hands.)
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As to the argumants made here about ridiculous pensions, and how to pay for our education system, I'm mostly in agreement with those who find the pensions unreasonable, and the current tax system of using property taxes to pay for the schools no longer workable. And the many many separate school systems - that is nuts! Nassau Schools and SUffolk Schools. That should be it. Think of the savings there.
Amazing that you would even admitting this. Thank you for doing so. Most advocates of the status quo (LI public school teachers) only say, "Gimme, gimme, gimme my pension. I don't care if it bankrupts the whole state. I won't take the responsibility of saving my own money for my retirement like the rest of you suckers ... not even if I kill the golden goose in the process!"
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BUT - Bottom Line: Teachers are professionals just like Doctors & Lawyers & Accountants & Chemists & Architects & Engineers, etc., and they should be compensated in kind.
True white collar PROFESSIONALS do not need trade unions to be their daddy because they are educated and intelligent enough to take care of themselves and negotiate with their employers for their own best deal. That right there is the HUGE difference in personal ability to manage your own life which sets teachers on LI permanently well beneath the true white collar professionals of LI, "masters in education" or not. It isn't all about the advanced degree that makes you a white collar professional, you know.
Sorry but if teachers want the "respect" that true white collar professionals get, then dump the union nonsense. Doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. etc. get more respect because they don't need a shield in the workplace to do their negotiating and bully their employers for them. Trade unions were originally put in place to protect the WEAK workers from the abusive employers. True white collar professionals are not weak workers, they are management caliber. If teachers on LI are in unions, then they don't make the cut to be considered true white collar professionals, so they need to stop fooling themselves that they are. They are trade unionists which garners less respect. End of story.
True white collar PROFESSIONALS do not need trade unions to be their daddy ... They are trade unionists which garners less respect. End of story.
Agreed.
How professional is it for teachers to stage picketing and work slowdowns, such as not writing letters of recommendation to colleges for high school seniors, among other blue collar union tactics, when there are delays in negotiating a new contract?
How professional is it for teachers to stage picketing and work slowdowns, such as not writing letters of recommendation to colleges for high school seniors, among other blue collar union tactics, when there are delays in negotiating a new contract?
That's what unions do. They exist for the benefit of their members and they should not apologize for it. Actually, I am surprised that the teacher's unions do not take even more drastic action when the administration stonewalls on contract negotiations. I don't think the teamsters would be willing to work without a contract.
That's what unions do. They exist for the benefit of their members and they should not apologize for it. Actually, I am surprised that the teacher's unions do not take even more drastic action when the administration stonewalls on contract negotiations. I don't think the teamsters would be willing to work without a contract.
The teamsters aren't covered by the Taylor Law. There is little in the way of stonewalling, from what I have seen the boards approve every contract. The only BOE that contested the negotiations was in Plainview-Old Bethpage and they still ended up getting a 2-2.5% a year after going without a contract for 5 months and it was retroactive.
The BOE's would not be out of line in asking for a freeze in the contracts coming up since most districts received over a 3% increase in the last few contracts. I am sure the arbitrators would indicate they are not bargaining in good faith if they asked for a freeze.
That's what unions do. They exist for the benefit of their members and they should not apologize for it. Actually, I am surprised that the teacher's unions do not take even more drastic action when the administration stonewalls on contract negotiations. I don't think the teamsters would be willing to work without a contract.
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I'm confused....I though it was "all for the children"?
Previously posted - "The only BOE that contested the negotiations was in Plainview-Old Bethpage and they still ended up getting a 2-2.5% a year after going without a contract for 5 months and it was retroactive."
Bell Port/South Country and Sag Harbor have been without a contract since 7/1/2008
Shoream-Wading River has been without a contract since 7/1/09
Middle Country went about 5 or 6 months without a contract and got a 1 year extention that runs out 7/1/10. They will again be without a contract.
I'm confused....I though it was "all for the children"?
I have never heard anyone say it is "ALL" for the children. Many things teachers and the unions do are to help with educating children, but they also do many things for their own children and families as well. Should doctors charge no money because they are "all for the patients?" Should politicians take no salary because it is "all for the country?" When people provide a product or a service they usually do so to serve others but also to benefit them. You can spew all the hate you want, but until you actually walk in the shoes of the people you criticize, how can you truly judge them?
I am not a teacher. Never have been a teacher. Wife not a teacher.
Retired Exec with a medium-sized LI Corp. Living now on a fixed income.
I received the Sibson reports every year showing salaries & benefits for various professions. I was involved with setting up compensation/benefits packages for the Co., and, except for the Pensions, my former Co's benefits & salary scale far exceeded what teachers in any district get. Those benefits & salaries were based upon those reports - keeping them in line with what professionals in the area get paid generally. Plus in a Co. employees have things like Profit Sharing, stock options, etc., that a public employee does not have.
How many days per year did your former Co's employees work? Teachers work about 182 minus numerous days off they take. Did your Co's employees get unlimited sick days?
What 3 month exotic vacation has any teacher taken? EVER? Even if they leave the day school ends, there are still less than 3 months until school starts again. So a 3 month vacation is Impossible! On their salaries, any EXPENSIVE vacation is impossible.
I've taken a couple of expensive vacations since I retired. I can tell you that were were NO TEACHERS on the trips with me. Couldn't afford it.
Really? you questioned each fellow vacationer as to their occupation?
What teacher has a $50,000 car? Maybe the one their father bought them? Certainly not one they bought for themselves - just doesn't happen. But look at the high tech Company lots on LI - you'll see lots of them.
How many Long Islanders have $50,000 cars? When I pass by the East Williston School District Teacher parking lot ( has to be before 3PM or else lot is practically empty) I don't see cheap cars.
What teacher eats out every night? Maybe there are a few - a small minority. Those I know come home & have families & the families eat at home most of the time.
You have to be a teachers union rep to make such a ridiculous statement!
The point was, as pointed out in a later thread, that a teacher doesn't have to be able to live IN the District, but in the AREA OF the District. And as presently structured on LI - considering salaries, cost of living & housing, etc., a teacher cannot do so unless they have two incomes.
That is how it is for most LIers, but those who are Professionals, like Drs, Lawyers, Accountants, etc., have a much better chance of earning enough to be able to live in the area on one salary than on two. A teacher simply cannot.
Then they should live in an area they could afford.
I am not a teacher. Never have been a teacher. Wife not a teacher.
Retired Exec with a medium-sized LI Corp. Living now on a fixed income.
I received the Sibson reports every year showing salaries & benefits for various professions. I was involved with setting up compensation/benefits packages for the Co., and, except for the Pensions, my former Co's benefits & salary scale far exceeded what teachers in any district get. Those benefits & salaries were based upon those reports - keeping them in line with what professionals in the area get paid generally. Plus in a Co. employees have things like Profit Sharing, stock options, etc., that a public employee does not have.
What 3 month exotic vacation has any teacher taken? EVER? Even if they leave the day school ends, there are still less than 3 months until school starts again. So a 3 month vacation is Impossible! On their salaries, any EXPENSIVE vacation is impossible.
I've taken a couple of expensive vacations since I retired. I can tell you that were were NO TEACHERS on the trips with me. Couldn't afford it.
What teacher has a $50,000 car? Maybe the one their father bought them? Certainly not one they bought for themselves - just doesn't happen. But look at the high tech Company lots on LI - you'll see lots of them.
What teacher eats out every night? Maybe there are a few - a small minority. Those I know come home & have families & the families eat at home most of the time.
The point was, as pointed out in a later thread, that a teacher doesn't have to be able to live IN the District, but in the AREA OF the District. And as presently structured on LI - considering salaries, cost of living & housing, etc., a teacher cannot do so unless they have two incomes.
That is how it is for most LIers, but those who are Professionals, like Drs, Lawyers, Accountants, etc., have a much better chance of earning enough to be able to live in the area on one salary than on two. A teacher simply cannot.
OK, so which part are you having trouble understanding. Average middle class SD on LI has an average teachers salary around 80K + benefits. If your not able to afford a home on LI making money like that you shouldn't be teaching, you should be in school learning fiscal responsibility. If you don't think I could go to a school parking lot and pick out the 40-50K SUVs and cars, you'd be very wrong.
Boo-hoo, teachers need to be a dual income household... like 99% of the rest of LI.
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LI public school teachers are trade unionists NOT white collar professionals
