Santa Monica Preparing for Light Rail (Los Angeles, Sacramento: 2015, mover, lawyers)

[californio sur]

This video shows the progress on the Exposition Line and the land across from the new Santa Monica Place shopping center that will be a train station. It is very encouraging that by 2015 we will be able to take the train to the beach!


YouTube - ‪Light Rail to Santa Monica‬‎

[BRinSM]

phase 1 is already 2 years behind schedule, i would count on the same for phase 2.

[SoCal35]

Cool video. I look forward to it but these large-scale projects always take longer than official predictions (unfortunately). Phase I was supposed to open in 2009 I think.

LA Curbed had this report back in April, 2010 outlining the delays for Phase I: mostly legal wranglings and design issues to address community concerns.

Station by Station, Breaking Down Expo Line Delays : Expo Line, Phase I : Curbed LA

It WILL BE GREAT once Phase I and II are open; however, I shudder to think that we SHOULD be the Subway to the Sea shooting under Wilshire from Downtown LA to Santa Monica. Much faster and would serve more people.

That said, the Expo Line's execution concnerns me b/c the delays are only make voters question the govt's ability to get these projects done on time and on budget. Yet, it is the PUBLIC that CAUSES much of the delay! I am not against community input but the "citizen lawsuits" against this stuff gets annoying.

The re-design of some parts of PHASE I (like at Dorsey High) will cause delays not only in CONSTRUCTION but in the actual real time TRIP from Downtown to Santa Monica. Essentially, the MTA has agreed to have all trains near Dorsey slow to 15 mph coming to and from that stop. What is the point of building light rail if what we build can only go 15 mph!!!???!!!

Expo Line : Curbed LA

Also, if the community opposition and/or input to Phase I has set back the opening by 2 years....just wait until the westsiders (where Phase II will go) set their lawyers on the MTA. Those neighborhoods have the resources (and the lawyers live in the area) to tie this up for a very long time.

Don't mean to be so negative...it WILL GET BUILT. That is a good thing.

[K 22]

I've been reading and catching up on the Expo construction. I agree with the Phase I opposition that it really shouldn't be street level. La Brea isn't - I don't understand why Crenshaw, Vermont and the USC stops had to be. Also, if it wasn't street level - there most likely would never be a station at Farmdale Avenue anyway. It might be just me - but if I'm planning a mass transit rail line - I keep it away from the street as much as possible.

Phase II to Santa Monica will definitely get delayed since it looks like the Cheviot Hills folks want absolutely nothing to do with Expo. Metro said 2015 but I'd add at least 2-3 years to that one.

Expo is needed but I don't think it's as needed as the Downtown Regional Connector or the Purple Line to Westwood or even the Sepulveda Pass Line which is being talked about.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by K 22

I've been reading and catching up on the Expo construction. I agree with the Phase I opposition that it really shouldn't be street level. La Brea isn't - I don't understand why Crenshaw, Vermont and the USC stops had to be. Also, if it wasn't street level - there most likely would never be a station at Farmdale Avenue anyway. It might be just me - but if I'm planning a mass transit rail line - I keep it away from the street as much as possible.

Phase II to Santa Monica will definitely get delayed since it looks like the Cheviot Hills folks want absolutely nothing to do with Expo. Metro said 2015 but I'd add at least 2-3 years to that one.

Expo is needed but I don't think it's as needed as the Downtown Regional Connector or the Purple Line to Westwood or even the Sepulveda Pass Line which is being talked about.

The video showed that the existing rail line thru Cheviot Hills will be used and that the area is considered a "flood plain" so to put the train underground would add so much more cost as to make it unfeasible. Ultimately, neighborhoods have to acquiesce to the rapid transit plans.

[SoCal35]

Originally Posted by californio sur

The video showed that the existing rail line thru Cheviot Hills will be used and that the area is considered a "flood plain" so to put the train underground would add so much more cost as to make it unfeasible. Ultimately, neighborhoods have to acquiesce to the rapid transit plans.

Yes, I am all for building an alignment that is separated from existing traffic so that the trains move as fast as possible without delay.

However, I think it's clear that SOME community groups (esp. on the westside) will propose unworkable solutions (read: cost prohibitive) just to delay and potentially "de-rail" the entire project.

To some extent, that is what happened to light rail in the San Fernando Valley. THe orange line busway was ORIGINALLY supposed to be an extension of the red line subway. There was much debate about what exact type of line should go in there: light rail, heavy rail, etc.

Once the light rail was agreed upon there were debates about submerging the line in a trench (to cut down on noise) or keeping in above ground, etc. By the time it came time to actually build the line, the MTA had run out of money and the public sentiment was against more rail (circa the late '90's/ 2000). So we ended up with the Orange Line busway where a transfer at the No.Ho. station is required. If they had built heavy rail in a trench there would be no transfer required.

Glad the public mood has shifted back to more funding for rail. I look forward to the Expo line being completed.

[LASam]

Originally Posted by SoCal35

However, I think it's clear that SOME community groups (esp. on the westside) will propose unworkable solutions (read: cost prohibitive) just to delay and potentially "de-rail" the entire project.

Couldn't agree with you more. There's a Right of Way through Cheviot Hills... it would make no sense whatsoever to route the trains away from this for a longer, slower trip to Santa Monica. You buy a house near a ROW, don't be crying when it actually gets used by its owner. Cheviot Hills is part of the city of Los Angeles and needs to be a team player on this one. Conversely, everything possible should be done by the MTA to mitigate noise and to beautify the corridor through Cheviot Hills.

[Curmudgeon]

Some cautions based upon what has evolved with Sacramento's light rail. Yes, it can be a handy, environmentally friendly people mover. The down-side: street crossings can be very annoying if you're driving. Extending into Los Angeles proper can breed a lot of fare-jumping gang-bangers being brought to more affluent areas, like Santa Monica, to cause mischief. Two weeks after Sacramento opened the "south line" into the ghetto and barrios areas, the Downtown Plaza had it first shooting in its history. Not long after there was another shooting on the street nearby.

Ridership is usually reasonable during normal commuting hours for working people but before and after the rails can get uncomfortable, if not scary. Many homeless ride during operating hours to stay out of bad weather and/or to have someplace to sleep in relative peace.

Park and Ride light rail stations may be handy conveniences and money savers (no parking fees) but they can also be fraught with car break-ins and thefts.

Don't want to alarm but those were my experiences over 20 years in Sacramento. I hope they don't turn out to be yours.

[CamaroGuy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Some cautions based upon what has evolved with Sacramento's light rail. Yes, it can be a handy, environmentally friendly people mover. The down-side: street crossings can be very annoying if you're driving. Extending into Los Angeles proper can breed a lot of fare-jumping gang-bangers being brought to more affluent areas, like Santa Monica, to cause mischief. Two weeks after Sacramento opened the "south line" into the ghetto and barrios areas, the Downtown Plaza had it first shooting in its history. Not long after there was another shooting on the street nearby.

Ridership is usually reasonable during normal commuting hours for working people but before and after the rails can get uncomfortable, if not scary. Many homeless ride during operating hours to stay out of bad weather and/or to have someplace to sleep in relative peace.

Park and Ride light rail stations may be handy conveniences and money savers (no parking fees) but they can also be fraught with car break-ins and thefts.

Don't want to alarm but those were my experiences over 20 years in Sacramento. I hope they don't turn out to be yours.

Thanks for that info!

[LASam]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Some cautions based upon what has evolved with Sacramento's light rail. Yes, it can be a handy, environmentally friendly people mover. The down-side: street crossings can be very annoying if you're driving. Extending into Los Angeles proper can breed a lot of fare-jumping gang-bangers being brought to more affluent areas, like Santa Monica, to cause mischief. Two weeks after Sacramento opened the "south line" into the ghetto and barrios areas, the Downtown Plaza had it first shooting in its history. Not long after there was another shooting on the street nearby.

Ridership is usually reasonable during normal commuting hours for working people but before and after the rails can get uncomfortable, if not scary. Many homeless ride during operating hours to stay out of bad weather and/or to have someplace to sleep in relative peace.

Park and Ride light rail stations may be handy conveniences and money savers (no parking fees) but they can also be fraught with car break-ins and thefts.

Don't want to alarm but those were my experiences over 20 years in Sacramento. I hope they don't turn out to be yours.

So far we've been pretty lucky in avoiding what you are referring to above. We currently have light rail that runs through South LA and goes out to areas such as South Pasadena, Pasadena, and downtown. Thus far those areas appear to be mostly free of any riff-raff coming in to cause trouble.