Why is CA broke after having very high taxes (excpt Property)? (Oakland: wedding, high school)

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by UB50

People don't want to overturn Prop 13 for a lot of reasons, but there has to be a fairer way to assess property taxes.

There are too many ways to get around paying taxes (or what you owe) in this country.

It's not only taxes. My relative was real estate rich but income poor so she qualified for every social service ever devised. Technically, she was below the poverty line so she even got "free government cheese."

I inherited nothing from her but as a taxpayer, I'm appalled. She wasn't the only one doing it. Her neighbors were all doing the same thing.

You have a lot of senior citizens living in their homes that were paid for many years ago. If Prop 13 was removed or never enacted then you would have a lot of homeless seniors. Why should people pay more tax when valuation is politically/government controlled as we have seen over the past 15 years? Home values skyrocketed artificially because of low interest rates and fraudulent lending practices and both are regulated by the government/fed.
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[Charles]

Originally Posted by Don9

You have a lot of senior citizens living in their homes that were paid for many years ago. If Prop 13 was removed or never enacted then you would have a lot of homeless seniors. Why should people pay more tax when valuation is politically/government controlled as we have seen over the past 15 years? Home values skyrocketed artificially because of low interest rates and fraudulent lending practices and both are regulated by the government/fed.
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Why aren't seniors kicked out their homes in other states that do not have prop 13? Those states are subject to housing price fluctuations and low interest rates and wacky interest rates and fraudulent lending practices.

[adysmom]

It coast allot of money to build jails and prisons and to have police forces the size of an Army to keep them under a little control. Its not hard to see where the money is going, Welfare, jails and prisons.

[Ultrarunner]

Where to begin

Seniors are forced to leave other States due to ever increasing tax bills... I have posted about friends and family living in WA State that had no choice... they simply could not continue with huge year to year tax increases that were the norm in 2006-2009. Government should not be the instrument to displace and disrupt.

Prop 13... it makes no difference if someone bought property in 1950 or 1970... Prop 13 has only been around since the mid 70's... any purchase prior was already assessed at market value as if sold around the time of Prop 13 inception.

Legislature could have easily defeated Prop 13 by simply indexing the Home Owner's Exemption for Inflation... Home Owners would have continued to receive some protection and business property would have been left out of the mix.

Business and Trusts do change hands... business property is subject to re-assessment when a certain percentage of ownership has changed... The SF assessor has been very aggressive and successful in bringing business property current which has added many millions of extra tax revenue.

I bought my home at the peak of the market and values have declined significantly to everyone except the Assessor... Every appeal is successful and every year I have to appeal again because last year's amount is again increased... 83K increase this year over last.

The Assessor says it can not keep up... just think of how busy the office would be and the added costs involved if everyone had to appeal each year.

Prior to Prop 13... several Assessor's were serving prison time for underhanded deals and one committed suicide...

Lastly... the chart states taxes by and large are less on a Nationwide basis... I know for a fact that California taxes and fees are much higher than the average...

PS... What gives any politician the right to think it is OK to tax or levy a registration tax on vehicles to fund parks??? Why not tax milk a nickle a gallon to fund parks??? Makes just about as much sense

PPS... I know this is a Statewide issue in the LA forum... that said, Voters across CA have generously funded additional Property Taxes for specific services only to have that money diverted generating legal action mandating refunds at great expense resulting in a net loss to city coffers...

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by ashguy77

I have been wondering about this. After moving from Dallas here last year, I have to pay additional 9-10% State Income Tax. The Sales Taxes are ridiculously high. Registering my car was 4-5 times as expensive. Then why is CA broke??

I read a few articles and the main reasons cited are:
* Proposition 13, limit on increase in Property Taxes
* People on welfare including Illegal Immigrants
* High Prison costs due to 3 strikes and other rules
* Unions, like Teachers etc.

What other things cause this? It's unimaginable where the revenue goes as the revenue must be one of the highest in the US.

Thoughts?

I think you covered it. Perhaps the only thing you missed was high medical costs for the MediCal program (although maybe that's covered under the "welfare" category). I worry about the US bankrupting itself just with the high health care costs alone.

The biggest problem with unions is the super generous pensions they've demanded. The worst offenders at the state level are the state cops and the prison guards.

[Hwy phantom]

Originally Posted by Charles

Why aren't seniors kicked out their homes in other states that do not have prop 13? Those states are subject to housing price fluctuations and low interest rates and wacky interest rates and fraudulent lending practices.

Houses are much much cheaper pretty much everywhere. You would be comparing taxes on houses that are worth 100k elsewhere to houses worth 500,600,700K in CA.

[BluSpark]

Originally Posted by Hwy phantom

Houses are much much cheaper pretty much everywhere. You would be comparing taxes on houses that are worth 100k elsewhere to houses worth 500,600,700K in CA.

New York City is MORE expensive than LA....Boston is not cheap by any means. The world has not come to an end in either of those places with seniors being booted out on the street and they have no Prop. 13.

I am not saying that is good or bad but it is a fact.

[BluSpark]

Originally Posted by ashguy77

I have been wondering about this. After moving from Dallas here last year, I have to pay additional 9-10% State Income Tax. The Sales Taxes are ridiculously high. Registering my car was 4-5 times as expensive. Then why is CA broke??

I read a few articles and the main reasons cited are:
* Proposition 13, limit on increase in Property Taxes
* People on welfare including Illegal Immigrants
* High Prison costs due to 3 strikes and other rules
* Unions, like Teachers etc.

What other things cause this? It's unimaginable where the revenue goes as the revenue must be one of the highest in the US.

Thoughts?

The state government's spending is at the lowest it's been in years.

http://www.ccsce.com/PDF/Numbers-Jun...dget-Myth3.pdf

Measured as a % of personal income we are spending about the same amount that we were spending in the early 1990's recession. The boogeyman then was illegals and the boogeyman now is illegals. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by BluSpark

New York City is MORE expensive than LA....Boston is not cheap by any means. The world has not come to an end in either of those places with seniors being booted out on the street and they have no Prop. 13.

I am not saying that is good or bad but it is a fact.

Within five years of Proposition 13's passage, nearly half the states passed similar measures.

Washington State voters passed their own version of Prop 13 called I 747 several years ago... one judge threw it out and taxes sky-rocketed for many.

California's economic surge in the years following Proposition 13 was to become the envy of the nation. In the 10 years after the passage of Proposition 13, incomes in California grew 50 percent faster than in the nation as a whole; jobs grew at twice the national pace.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by BluSpark

The state government's spending is at the lowest it's been in years.

http://www.ccsce.com/PDF/Numbers-Jun...dget-Myth3.pdf

Measured as a % of personal income we are spending about the same amount that we were spending in the early 1990's recession. The boogeyman then was illegals and the boogeyman now is illegals. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

One would hope California would enjoy economies of scale and the experience of over 30 years with Prop 13 on the books.

Collective bargaining was something that is relatively new in California's history for Public Employees... CA Government Pensions are the envy of the world... especially Police and Fire Pensions.

Program spending continued for many years unabated... I have attended many City Council meetings during the boom years... council was urged to put money aside for a rainy day fund... instead, programs increase at double or more the rate of inflation.