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Old 12-18-2011, 10:40 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 36,700,291 times
Reputation: 7522
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
One would imagine there would be more places to stop at, experience, and spend money in on ground transport, rather than passing it all up using a method of travel that seems to be getting more scarce and expensive every year. Air travel isn't nearly as enjoyable as it used to be, and just continually falling prey to monopolization.

Besides, you can't haul much without great expense via airlines.
If I want to go to San Francisco quickly, I just want to get there. I'm not going to stop and "experience" Modesto or Baksersfield along the way. How is air travel getting more scarce? Price goes up and down with fuel costs, as would any other transportation type. True, airlines aren't freight services. If I needed to lug more than would fit in my bag, I'd drive. I really doubt HSR would let me bring a car-load of stuff with me either.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:43 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 36,700,291 times
Reputation: 7522
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhcompy View Post
Err, the point of a high speed rail isn't added stops, it's minimal stops. Otherwise, you'd have a commuter rail, or worse, Amtrak, which loses billions a year.
This. I just heard something about how in order to make the travel time projections between LA and SF they sold the voters on, the HSR will need to maintain a minimum speed which will require far more bridges and tunnels than originally stated. This just keeps getting more and more expensive and they haven't even starting DOING anything yet, which is when the real cost overruns and delays start.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:22 PM
 
Location: RSM
5,113 posts, read 17,801,498 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
This. I just heard something about how in order to make the travel time projections between LA and SF they sold the voters on, the HSR will need to maintain a minimum speed which will require far more bridges and tunnels than originally stated. This just keeps getting more and more expensive and they haven't even starting DOING anything yet, which is when the real cost overruns and delays start.
In the end, the Big Dig will be a joke compared to this
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:27 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,957,573 times
Reputation: 4532
When this nice system is killed , the $$$ will go into the New Northeast Corridor which will be built over the next 4 decades at a cost of 110 Billion $$$ with Inflation factored in. Phase 1 is underway , which would be the upgrade the Corridor between New York / Newark and Morrisville,PA at a cost of 4 Billion. The line will be straighten , Wires replaced and Grade Separation of current and future lines , the speed will also be increased from 135mph to 160 or 170mph. 2 New Tunnels will be built into NYC , and a New Station with Preps to continue onto the Grand Central which is phase 3.

Phase 2 , will include faster bypasses of Philadelphia through the Heart of Centre City , Wilmington and Baltimore....all of these would cost 30 Billion $$ mostly do to 20 Miles of Tunnel under Urban areas needed.

Phase 3 would build a New NEC from Penn Station to Grand Central , and up to White Plains , Danbury , Hartford , Worcester or Woonsocket and Boston in a mostly straight line. Addition lines to Springfield / Brattleboro , Binghamton / Scranton , Northwest Corridor , Lehigh Corridor and Downstate line are all being built or in the early stages of planning... These lines would feed into the NEC and connect outer cities , with Full Electrification , the cost of these lines would between 10-25 Billion $$$. And This is just the Intercity / High Speed Rail plans , if you factor in Commuter Rail expansion which is popular in this region and Subway / Streetcars / Light Rail the cost grows 450 Billion $$ which is still less then the 2050 California Transportation plans which is almost a Trillion.

80% of these lines spur Muti-Billion projects around stations and revitalize towns and cities....and add billions in new Tax revenue. The Same can be said for CAHSR or any Rail project in Cali...you get your bang for your buck.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:16 PM
 
Location: SoCal, Idaho
3,162 posts, read 8,861,898 times
Reputation: 1637
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
One would imagine there would be more places to stop at, experience, and spend money in on ground transport, rather than passing it all up using a method of travel that seems to be getting more scarce and expensive every year. Air travel isn't nearly as enjoyable as it used to be, and just continually falling prey to monopolization.

Besides, you can't haul much without great expense via airlines.
I do the LA/SF drive 1-2 times per year. Even if available I wouldn't take a train.
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Old 12-19-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Chandler, AZ
5,801 posts, read 5,647,071 times
Reputation: 3119
Me neither; HSR between LA & the Bay area makes zero sense when you can fly almost hourly 7 days a week on a flight that only takes 40 minutes tops.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
17,706 posts, read 17,763,227 times
Reputation: 14332
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Shall we simply continue with the present gridlock instead? Keeping costs of HSR in check is certainly fine and appropriate, but totally ditching it with no better alternative does nothing to improve our depressing transportation system.

Nope, build more roads...............99% of the people WANT to drive to where they are going.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:29 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,854,653 times
Reputation: 10936
It's dead Jim ...
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:59 AM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,457 posts, read 25,400,613 times
Reputation: 13529
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhcompy View Post
Err, the point of a high speed rail isn't added stops, it's minimal stops. Otherwise, you'd have a commuter rail, or worse, Amtrak, which loses billions a year.
Yeah, but where else can you get a family of four from Barstow to Raton, NM for only $216? (on short notice at that)
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:43 AM
 
2,918 posts, read 4,758,240 times
Reputation: 3675
I'm no Vegas nut, but there's a route right there. Los Angeles to Las Vegas. A shorter distance over more manageable terrain benefiting two states and inland regions for a huge population of eager users. I think its commercial viability could fund more rail rather quickly. Las Vegas would benefit as an attractive westward travel hub. It would certainly free up traffic.
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