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Old 01-08-2012, 01:13 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,100 posts, read 22,740,691 times
Reputation: 6128

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Well then you sound like a very judgmental person. You could try to help matters instead of labeling people. If you treat a car like a valuable thing it shines and runs well. If you treat it like trash - it becomes junk. Perhaps you tickyul could try applying the same principle to human beings.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Fresno, CA
1,071 posts, read 1,100,304 times
Reputation: 1980
HoliWood- So sorry for what you're going through. I've been dealing with the noise issue in my changing neighborhood for the past several years and can very much sympathize. It would be more unbearable in an apt.

As a woman, I understand your reluctance to stir the pot by calling police. I don't do this lightly but I have overcome much trepidation about doing so. I've tried to talk with some of the offenders like your neighbor and whether hostile or congenial, they all appear to feel ENTITLED to make their outrageous noise.

I would encourage you to consider the following:
  • Send a certified letter to apt. management titled "Formal Complaint".
    In a sentence or two describe how long and in what ways you've been a good tenant (including not previously complaining). Outline the frequency, times and types of unreasonable noise you're enduring. Ask for a reply about what they plan to do within two weeks. Send cc's to owner and the mgr of your complex.

  • Find out from your local police dept or councilperson's office how to get a copy of your local noise ordinance and how it's enforced.

  • Tape record and keep written documentation of each occurrence with date, time, type, etc. On the tape, state the date and time of the event. If other neighbors complain to you but not to mgt., list their names and dates of complaint.

  • When the bad neighbors are at their worst, call police (not Friday or Saturday night when they're busiest). Give officers a copy of your written documentation. Play some of the tape for them. If they ask you to sign a complaint and go to court, do it. Worrisome, I know from personal experience. But do it. This will likely seriously get your neighbor's attention. There's a chance they moved from their previous location for a similar problem. If you were super lucky, they would be quieter for 7 months and then move. (Even better if they break their lease and move but too much to hope for.)

  • Send weekly documentation to apt. management as long as the unreasonable noise persists. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Even if they won't do anything, you have proof you've done your due diligence. Written works better than verbal complaining. You have a paper trail.

  • Call your local attorney referral service that provides a consultation for a nominal fee ($35 in my town- worth the money). Schedule an appt. You might be able to get a "cease and desist" letter for a modest sum that carries some legal clout. Letters from lawyers get peoples' attention. Find some lawyer that will write such a letter to your noisy neighbor in your behalf.

  • As a last resort, go to your local councilperson and ask for assistance. Mine ran interference with police in one situation.

I know how crazymaking this can be. Legal is the way to go if apt. managers are unhelpful. Most women like a more low profile way of resolving things, but overcome your hesitation and save your living situation if you can.

Best of luck!

Last edited by mollyblythe; 01-08-2012 at 02:09 AM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:21 AM
 
Location: EST
369 posts, read 467,760 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyCo View Post
I wouldn't recommend doing any of this. The neighbor has already proven to be unreasonable. Trying to reason with an unreasonable individual is an exercise in futility and frustration. These kinds of people just don't care; they have a sense of entitlement that can make all the noise they want at all hours, and everyone else should just put up with it!

How do you propose that she "get away" if she's being assaulted?! That sounds easier said than done. Even if she can call 911, bad things can happen in the few minutes it may take the police to arrive.

Taking a male friend along for the face to face confrontation won't solve anything, because even if the neighbors pretend to be reasonable, they won't be after he leaves - and then it's just Holi against the neighbors.

Besides, her harassing them just ups her stress level - and that's what she's trying to avoid!
I'm 100% in agreement with this. These are not the type of people who are civil. The fact that I was nice and politely asked her to keep things down, and she slammed the door in my face, says it all. Who does that, esp when it's the first time someone politely asked you to be considerate? Or when Igot fed up and knocked on the ceiling, and they knocked on the floor in response...again, rude people. They are unreasonable and thoughtless, and I refuse to work it out with them personally.

But thanks for the input, Harrier.

Last edited by HoliWood; 01-08-2012 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:28 AM
 
Location: EST
369 posts, read 467,760 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mollyblythe View Post
HoliWood- So sorry for what you're going through. I've been dealing with the noise issue in my changing neighborhood for the past several years and can very much sympathize. It would be more unbearable in an apt.

As a woman, I understand your reluctance to stir the pot by calling police. I don't do this lightly but I have overcome much trepidation about doing so. I've tried to talk with some of the offenders like your neighbor and whether hostile or congenial, they all appear to feel ENTITLED to make their outrageous noise.

I would encourage you to consider the following:
  • Send a certified letter to apt. management titled "Formal Complaint".
    In a sentence or two describe how long and in what ways you've been a good tenant (including not previously complaining). Outline the frequency, times and types of unreasonable noise you're enduring. Ask for a reply about what they plan to do within two weeks. Send cc's to owner and the mgr of your complex.

  • Find out from your local police dept or councilperson's office how to get a copy of your local noise ordinance and how it's enforced.

  • Tape record and keep written documentation of each occurrence with date, time, type, etc. On the tape, state the date and time of the event. If other neighbors complain to you but not to mgt., list their names and dates of complaint.

  • When the bad neighbors are at their worst, call police (not Friday or Saturday night when they're busiest). Give officers a copy of your written documentation. Play some of the tape for them. If they ask you to sign a complaint and go to court, do it. Worrisome, I know from personal experience. But do it. This will likely seriously get your neighbor's attention. There's a chance they moved from their previous location for a similar problem. If you were super lucky, they would be quieter for 7 months and then move. (Even better if they break their lease and move but too much to hope for.)

  • Send weekly documentation to apt. management as long as the unreasonable noise persists. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Even if they won't do anything, you have proof you've done your due diligence. Written works better than verbal complaining. You have a paper trail.

  • Call your local attorney referral service that provides a consultation for a nominal fee ($35 in my town- worth the money). Schedule an appt. You might be able to get a "cease and desist" letter for a modest sum that carries some legal clout. Letters from lawyers get peoples' attention. Find some lawyer that will write such a letter to your noisy neighbor in your behalf.

  • As a last resort, go to your local councilperson and ask for assistance. Mine ran interference with police in one situation.

I know how crazymaking this can be. Legal is the way to go if apt. managers are unhelpful. Most women like a more low profile way of resolving things, but overcome your hesitation and save your living situation if you can.

Best of luck!
Thanks, Molly - very sound advice!
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,100 posts, read 22,740,691 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoliWood View Post
But thanks for the input, Harrier.
No problem.

I suppose another tactic could be printing out a transcript of this thread and sliding it under their door or mailing it!
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:44 PM
 
1,804 posts, read 6,432,319 times
Reputation: 1200
Oh boy. This is quite a difficult situation. "Mollyblythe" gave very sound advice. I was going to suggest the police be involved. I know this has been mentioned in other posts. OP, you may be pleasantly surprised by what a little police involvement can bring about. It just may work. Sounds like the only thing that has not been tried.

As far as the child constantly crying and screaming, the child may very well have special needs, and that may play a part in the behaviors that the parents can't or won't handle. But nonetheless, the adults seem to be problematic.

I say call the law. Serve and protect is what they do. Noise violations are very real. Also, a quick trip over to your local law enforcement agency for fact finding is in order, I think. Just tell them the scenario and ask for their suggestions. They will likely ask if you have tried to resolve the issue first w/o police involvement and you most certainly have. I think police participation is graded/staged with the first step being the citizen trying to resolve on their own, second step, talking to mgmt company, etc.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
17,654 posts, read 17,706,990 times
Reputation: 14280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Well then you sound like a very judgmental person. You could try to help matters instead of labeling people. If you treat a car like a valuable thing it shines and runs well. If you treat it like trash - it becomes junk. Perhaps you tickyul could try applying the same principle to human beings.

No thanks, I just avoid scum as much as possible.


But I do not hold your opinions against you...........hey, I believe in Pixie Dust and The Tooth Fairy.......so you are free to have your own fantasies.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
6,187 posts, read 7,998,332 times
Reputation: 7925
I have been in property management for many years, and have rented to all kinds of people, and let me tell you firsthand, these people living above you are trouble, with a capital "T".
About 20 years ago, I was asked to manage a building in Lincoln Heights.
One of the tenants were just like the one's you are now dealing with.
The owner fired the previous manager because they would not address the problem family.
There were a husband, wife, and two kids.
The owner knew of the problem, but relied on the manager to fix it.
Well, that never happened, so He contacted me.
The first thing I did was knock on their door, and introduce myself, then explained that there were numerous complaints by other tenants, and neighbors regarding the loud music, babies crying at all hours, and arguments.
I asked them to control it, and left it at that .
Two days later I was called to the property by one of the other tenants, because of the noise coming from that same apartment.
This time I came with a three day notice that they had to comply, or they would be issued a thirty day notice to vacate.
Before slamming the door in my face, the husband told me I had better "watch my back".
I knew then we were in for trouble.
I gave them a thirty day notice three days later, and the husband again was very hostile.
I still remember his words to this day, "you are going to be ****** sorry, for this", and once again slammed the door.
I spoke with the owner and told him we are going to have real trouble with these people.
I had a hunch they were going to retalliate in a big way, and they held true too form.
The day we got our judgement in court against them, the house was set deliberately on fire, and was a total loss.
I knew they did it, but couldn't prove it.
So Holli, take head, these fools are not to be screwed with.
You have no idea what people like that are capable of.
They may not burn the building down, but you can bet you will be on their ***** list of things to "take care of".
Bob.

Last edited by Count David; 01-08-2012 at 11:50 PM.. Reason: starred out hidden profane word
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:19 PM
 
Location: EST
369 posts, read 467,760 times
Reputation: 130
@Bob - Oh, believe me, I realize this. I don't think these people will go so far as the crazy tenants you just wrote about, but they will certainly go out of their way to make even more noise and stomp around, and how would I prove that to management unless they come by and sit in my apartment? They can't even be bothered to respond to my letter!

UPDATE: Today, I saw another apartment that I liked. The building is nice, it has amenities (pool, etc., which is not that important to me), and it is being rented out by the owner. In fact, the apartment is a condo, the whole building is, and it's rent-by-owner. I've never dealt with that rental situation before, and I wonder how it would be. The good thing is, if the owner is flexible, they are the ones making all the decisions. This is a top-floor unit, so that's what I want.

The downside to this situation is several: 1) The unit is 120 sq. ft smaller than my current place, so it puts it on the cramped side of things. It is a bit too small, but I'm willing to work with it if the situation is right. 2) He wants to save money when his current tenant moves out and seemed hesitant about delivering a unit to me that is in pre-current tenant status - in other words, he doesn't want to get the carpets cleaned (he said they look fine to him), he doesn't want to get the tub re-glazed (he said he doesn't even know how that's done), and he said he was going to clean the place himself, and didn't want to spend the money to have professionals clean it "because you'll clean it yourself before you move in anyway, I'm sure," he said. 3) He was so-so about removing the 'fridge so that I can place my own in there. I'm not selling my 'fridge - I bought it brand new and if I were to move again, most places require that you have your own fridge. 4) Closet space was also kind of tight for this place, but not horrendous. 5) The other potential downfall that I see is that if there are maintenance issues, because of the costs, he might be slow in getting it fixed; I don't know this for a fact, but based on the previous reasons I just expressed, I feel that would be the case.

He did say if I was willing to sign a 2-year lease with him and be more "flexible" about the condition of the apartment (like if he left black knicked marks on the walls, as is, etc.), he would drop the rent by $50 and maybe not raise the rent the 2nd year. Well, that is a plus...but well, see the negatives, above.

At this point, I have exhausted the entire city of Pasadena and South Pasadena, and even some of Alhambra (I don't like it there). I even did the driving around the entire city thing, looking for places. There were a couple I hadn't seen online, so I called, but no one answered. I left message and am waiting to see what's what.

Well, as we were going through this unit, the owner received 3 more calls of potential tenants that were downstairs waiting to see the unit. Boy, renting is cut-throat out there. I figured, for now, if he offers this place to me, I'd take it. I think I can work out most of the issues with him - I hope. But, since he had 3 other people to see it already (the area is great, right near me), he said he'll call me. I told him to please let me know a.s.a.p. because someone else was holding a unit for me until tomorrow (that big place I saw a couple of days ago that was $200 more/month). And so that's where I am at.

No other luck with other places.

So I left a message for the manager of the huge place (that costs an extra $200/month) to see if I can get her to drop the rent $100/month. I didn't say why I was calling, but I asked her to call me. I'm a great tenant and it would be to their benefit to work with me on the rent instead of letting it sit empty, but she seemed firm on the rent 2 days ago. We'll see.

Haven't heard from the owner of the smaller unit yet, but he's showing the place until 5 today (it's now 4:15). He's obviously not short of prospective tenants, so he may be less willing to work things out by now...who knows.

I'd love to hear others' input on the above rental options. What would you do in my shoes?

Last edited by HoliWood; 01-08-2012 at 05:37 PM..
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
6,297 posts, read 15,774,233 times
Reputation: 8358
This is tough, Holi. I'd stay away from the condo owner who doesn't even want to clean the carpets. That is a major red flag, for at least a couple of reasons. 1) You're probably right that he'd be slow to deal with regular maintenance issues, 2) What is his financial situation like if he's so reluctant to improve the unit that he's possibly willing to lower the rent to avoid the current expense of fixing the condo?! I wonder if you can run a credit check on him! Of course, you'd want to bring your own refrigerator. If you're already trying to negotiate things like this, forget it. I wouldn't want to be stuck in a two-year lease with this guy! A $50 month break on the rent isn't worth it. (Your instincts are already telling you this; I'm just backing you up! )

The bigger place seems like the best option for now. If she says, "No, we can't come down $100, but we can do $50", I recommend you take it!
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