Los Angeles and the illegal immigration problem (Nice: renters, crime)

[fastfilm]

Semantics: the ideological sway of the demonstrations promoted the notion that breaking a Federal law was excusable. Pro illegal = pro criminal, used as an adjective.

Dangerous Cities list: I'm curious too how they defined or divided areas for that survey; perhaps you can find out for us. For instance, Compton was indeed #4 most dangerous, yet Compton is technically part of Los Angeles.

[gringo istmeño]

Originally Posted by fastfilm

That's one degree of separation from two people I trust to not exaggerate for effect.

I sometimes have a hard time comprehending your statements (for lack of something on my part) but 1 person who had eggs thrown at him/her hardly constitutes "all non-hispanic people"- That was just a gross exaggeration.

[Blue Grass Fever]

I don't understand the irony/situation of Mexican nationals practically dying to get in the U.S. only to use it as a stomping grounds/free for all.

Quite sad, only to go back to Mexico after risking their lives getting to the U.S. in the first place. To see children and women needlessly die in the desert. Do the Mexican nationals know money isn't everything?

Contradictory? Please clue me in.

[Steve97415]

Originally Posted by gringo istmeño

But the Immigration here (oaxaca) seems to do things pretty much by the book.

I'm sure it is. With such a a moral and upstanding gentleman as Ulises Ruiz in charge, I can't imagine that there would be any form of corruption or lawlessness anywhere in Oaxaca.

[Steve97415]

Originally Posted by Blue Grass Fever

I don't understand the irony/situation of Mexican nationals practically dying to get in the U.S. only to use it as a stomping grounds/free for all.

Quite sad, only to go back to Mexico after risking their lives getting to the U.S. in the first place. To see children and women needlessly die in the desert. Do the Mexican nationals know money isn't everything?

Contradictory? Please clue me in.

Mexico is one of the world's most beautiful countries. But it's not a land of opportunity for those without resources. Most people can't see through the cultural mist of tradición y familia and comprehend the scourge of overpopulation and environmental destruction that wracks the nation. The survival instinct is strong, and when you're dirt-poor and desperate, money IS everything. The risks are high, but the risks of staying in Mexico are often higher -- there is no possibility of upward mobility. Most Mexicans sorely miss their patria when the do emmigrate, and many dream of moving back some day when they've made it big in El Norte. But most never will. It's hard for us to imagine, but many Mexicans really see little future hope for themselves as individuals. They live for the chance of passing their DNA on to another generation that will live achieve the dream that has eluded them.

[gringo istmeño]

Originally Posted by Steve97415

I'm sure it is. With such a a moral and upstanding gentleman as Ulises Ruiz in charge, I can't imagine that there would be any form of corruption or lawlessness anywhere in Oaxaca.

intersting statement here. I am interested in finding out facts that prove that Ulises Ruiz is guilty of the things those protestors are charging him with. I know that for one, their claim that he killed children in the June attack was a out-right lie. I`m also interested in knowing what the next phase of the APPO`s plan is, after they`ve gutted and destroyed beautiful Oaxaca city. Please tell me they have a plan, because from here, it doesn`t look like it. I also wonder why if Ulises really did rig the 2004 elections, why wait until 2006 to start a chaotic and yes, a violent protest in the city. Lopez Obrador started in on the very same day that he lost the presidential election. I don`t think it is a coincidence that shortly after, the teachers, now joined by the APPO, started in with: uh yeah, Ruiz did it too!

The lawlessness that you are seeing on the news is not from Ulises, it is the protestors, most of whom are not even teachers (the teachers voted last thursday to end the strike, and what happened Friday?) Those APPO guys have a really hard time accepting voting results.

I am not a Ruiz supporter, I just love Oaxaca city, and I have a lot of friends and some family that live there- it is really sad to see the state it is in today, and those protestors have made it that way.

[gringo istmeño]

Originally Posted by Steve97415

I'm sure it is. With such a a moral and upstanding gentleman as Ulises Ruiz in charge, I can't imagine that there would be any form of corruption or lawlessness anywhere in Oaxaca.

Besides that, I was specifically referring to Oaxaca`s immigration office, something I`ve personally been dealing with for a long time, and so I stand by my statement.

[Christine Joan]

Los Angeles has a lot of problems as do all large urban cities. I don't understand the logic of blaiming all of the city's problems on the illegal Immigration problem though. Actually, illegal immigrants mow most of our lawns for very low wages, watch our children for very low wages so that mothers can return to work without paying most of their paycheck to childcare, and perform all kinds of jobs that many Americans will not consider taking. Many illegal Immigrants are now grandparents and their children and grandchildren are American citizens who are now running our local governments, running their own businesses (employing other American citizens) and working as professionals in all occupations.
Many of the problems in Los Angeles are caused by gang violence, drugs, and a gross disparity in income from the haves and have nots. A small segment of the population lives very well on the west end of town and in suburban gated communities. However, a larger segment of the population is struggling to make ends meet because it is so very expensive to live here.
The local governments are extremely burdened with social service responsibilities and try to find a way to get every last nickel they can from the city's residents. For example, recently, they increased the fees for trash collection so that they can place more police officers on the streets. However, the city is beginning to acknowledge the many problems and is beginning to take action to clean up the worst problem areas of town and to provide better services.

[snb3]

Originally Posted by Christine Joan

Los Angeles has a lot of problems as do all large urban cities. I don't understand the logic of blaiming all of the city's problems on the illegal Immigration problem though. Actually, illegal immigrants mow most of our lawns for very low wages, watch our children for very low wages so that mothers can return to work without paying most of their paycheck to childcare, and perform all kinds of jobs that many Americans will not consider taking. Many illegal Immigrants are now grandparents and their children and grandchildren are American citizens who are now running our local governments, running their own businesses (employing other American citizens) and working as professionals in all occupations.
Many of the problems in Los Angeles are caused by gang violence, drugs, and a gross disparity in income from the haves and have nots. A small segment of the population lives very well on the west end of town and in suburban gated communities. However, a larger segment of the population is struggling to make ends meet because it is so very expensive to live here.
The local governments are extremely burdened with social service responsibilities and try to find a way to get every last nickel they can from the city's residents. For example, recently, they increased the fees for trash collection so that they can place more police officers on the streets. However, the city is beginning to acknowledge the many problems and is beginning to take action to clean up the worst problem areas of town and to provide better services.

EVERY example you've mentioned has been impacted by the large population of illegals here. Yes, they work for lower wages. If a family shares a rooom, 3-4 families to a house, you have lower expenses (like my neighbor). In fact, they lower wages to a point that legal residents cannot compete nor are willing to work for @ that rate. Is that a good thing? Yes, the children of illegals are citizens & some even enter politics. Is that a good thing? Let's use this city as a case study and see how it turns out. Yes, there is a gang problem here. Its a fact not only in CA but where ever there is a large illegal immigrant community, a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by illegal immigrants. "For such hard working folks, they sure commit a lot of crimes" ( a quote from another). Check the stats for LA & it is staggering.
Yes, metro LA is experiencing class warfare of sorts. Its become a class of wealthy property owners in pockets of good areas and renters everywhere else w/o roots to their community.

As for healthcare, they can take the credit for over-burdening the system to near collapse. Raising city taxes for improvements. I'll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I need to paint over the graffitti, scoop up the dogsheet from my sidewalk, call the city to come pick up trash they leave behind conveniently ( the last month they left behind : brake caliper, transmission clutch, a lounge chair, etc). Have they ever heard of a trash can? Even I know "basura".

In the end, I really don't blame the immigrants. After all, I am one myself. Difference is, no matter how painful it was (my family started the process before I was born. we made it here when I was 3), we did it the right way. Just because they can easily cross the border or because it takes forever to become citizens doesn't make it right. I blame the law makers of our govt for being spineless & govt of Mexico for their world-class corruption & exporting their poverty issues to the US.

[DeLaSalle]

Originally Posted by premed429

I don't believe house prices will plummet in LA, no matter how bad it gets.


1. California is full of liberals....the type of people that really don't care about who their neighbors are.

2. Real estate agents and Hollywood have ingrained the "California Dream" in people. Real estate agents will be quick to capitolize on the fact that:

"Where else can you be at the beach, and in one hour later you can be in the moutains"

LA has it's drawing points.....the same drawing points that brought my parents and assumably most of you here 30 some-odd years ago. But it is the current social problems that not too many non-native Los Angelians know about, that are ruining the perceived quality of life, as compared to the way "things used to be".

3. The media out here is HEAVILY liberal and biased, so dont expect many reports on the degradation of the quality of life out here.

The illegal aliens will breed out of control (as they have been for the past 20 some odd years they have been coming here), and before long, LA will be a predominately Latino area. Not that it is a bad thing mind you, but rather, that type of "lifestyle" is just not for me.

Everyone else will not say one word, for their perceived fear of being labeled a "racist".


Nice catch-22, but I'm too smart to fall for that one !!!

You are so right and I feel your pain...