What's with the lack of Retail in DTLA? (San Francisco, Ross: salons, neighborhood)

[MB8abovetherim]

IMO the difference between New York, Chicago, Toronto, San Francisco and LA is that LA doesn't really have a lot of mainstream retail downtown. That Big Lots on Broadway doesn't count and neither do all those Jewelry Wholesale places and Garment places either. I'm talking about a broader spectrum of retail that includes the higher end. Yes, there is the Macys, the place on Figueroa st and that Ralphs but other than those places there really isn't anything other than small mom & pop and wholesale places. I'm not saying DTLA should go trendy and turn into a tourist ghetto but it seems like it would benefit a lot from not only the extra foot traffic but it would appeal to an extra demographic. For example: putting some retail on Bunker Hill, you know that place dies after the workday, would keep it more lively into the evening bridging the vibrancy void between Chinatown and the rest of DTLA. Or LALive, they should have put some retail their also. Just things like that coupled with the ever increasing residential population will turn an already great Downtown into an impressive center to an already brilliant city.

[BRinSM]

bunker hill is nearly all modern office towers with limited space for retail on the ground level.

[MB8abovetherim]

Originally Posted by BRinSM

bunker hill is nearly all modern office towers with limited space for retail on the ground level.

There is that useless hole between 1st and 2nd streets, all those parking garages that can be done away with IE, put them underground with the retail at street level. Also, a couple of those buildings sit on pedestals, especially along Flower st, retail would look good right there. That section of Flower makes me feel like Im in Houston or something.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by MB8abovetherim

it seems like it would benefit a lot from not only the extra foot traffic but it would appeal to an extra demographic.

I would think retail corporations know what they're doing. It's more than foot traffic. It's market research, zoning, taxes, property rates, proximity to housing, and customer habits. They have demographers and MBAs working out the best place to open stores.

[munchitup]

Originally Posted by Charles

I would think retail corporations know what they're doing. It's more than foot traffic. It's market research, zoning, taxes, property rates, proximity to housing, and customer habits. They have demographers and MBAs working out the best place to open stores.

Yeah, and there have been a lot of stores opening recently. The reputation downtown LA has had for decades is pretty hard to shake, though you are seeing some momentum lately. Also, you forgot the Target at 7th and Figueroa... But yes, DTLA is pretty lacking in even mid-range retail, let alone high-end.

[MB8abovetherim]

I know LA is huge and I'm sure that contributes to the problem. I also realize that DTLA is only part of the larger area that makes up LA's "core" but still, wouldn't it make sense to put some of those retail places you see on the Westside downtown? It is downtown afterall, the name itself makes it "central" and important. Just a thought.

[pwright1]

With downtown in decline for so many years there was really no reason to come dt. But now with downtown on the upswing, believe me retailers are watching. So far within the past few months we've seen Target, Ross and now Brooks Brothers should be opening within the next month. It eventually will come. The jewelery stores along Hill and 7th are the worst because like most jewelery stores they close early, even during daylight savings time and they're all closed on Sundays which means lots of dead space. I can't believe how empty and dead this area is on a nice Sunday afternoon or on any day during the early evening.. This area would be so nice lined with nice stores and restaurants. I hate to say this but those jewelry stores do nothing for downtown.

[pbergen]

generally speaking, there's a bit of a lag between the revitalization of a long-depressed neighborhood and the emergence of a bona fide mid-to-upper tier shopping district, regardless of the city. even luring that first nice brand name store in an area with a poor reputation can be difficult.

instead, simple mom-and-pop businesses catering to the early pioneers (often artists) tend to dominate during the first stages of gentrification: small, modest eateries, coffeeshops, corner bars, bookstores, record shops, tattoo parlors, and maybe a small live music venue or two.

as the neighborhood evolves and begins attracting a more affluent/trendy demographic, the demand for more upscale local amenities also increases, resulting in bistros, wine bars, clothing boutiques, shoe stores, pet grooming salons, and enough cupcake bakeries to keep the "sex and the city" crowd sated. the early residential/commercial pioneers start to get priced out, but there's still a decent mix of funky, unique local businesses to go with the more yuppie-oriented newer spots.

it's during the early stages of this second wave of gentrification that a few well-known/national retailers might take a chance on the neighborhood, which is no longer as scruffy or dangerous as it used to be, yet still has an edgy, artistic vibe without being downright scary. just like the yuppies who are moving in, the retailers want to capitalize on the cache of being in a hip, emerging neighborhood without the growing pains of being pioneers, not to mention enjoying the relatively cheaper rents.

then once the neighborhood has transformed into a full-blown yuppie stronghold with baby strollers everywhere, the national/name brand retailers really start to pour in, with many of the modest businesses from the first wave of gentrification being pushed out due to the higher rents.

in the case of DTLA's retail scene, i think target, ross, ralph's, and brooks brothers are just the tip of the iceberg. the one thing that may complicate matters is the continued presence of skid row, which i'm sure has scared away more than a few chain and independently-owned businesses alike.

[munchitup]

Originally Posted by pbergen

generally speaking, there's a bit of a lag between the revitalization of a long-depressed neighborhood and the emergence of a bona fide mid-to-upper tier shopping district, regardless of the city. even luring that first nice brand name store in an area with a poor reputation can be difficult.

instead, simple mom-and-pop businesses catering to the early pioneers (often artists) tend to dominate during the first stages of gentrification: small, modest eateries, coffeeshops, corner bars, bookstores, record shops, tattoo parlors, and maybe a small live music venue or two.

as the neighborhood evolves and begins attracting a more affluent/trendy demographic, the demand for more upscale local amenities also increases, resulting in bistros, wine bars, clothing boutiques, shoe stores, pet grooming salons, and enough cupcake bakeries to keep the "sex and the city" crowd sated. the early residential/commercial pioneers start to get priced out, but there's still a decent mix of funky, unique local businesses to go with the more yuppie-oriented newer spots.

it's during the early stages of this second wave of gentrification that a few well-known/national retailers might take a chance on the neighborhood, which is no longer as scruffy or dangerous as it used to be, yet still has an edgy, artistic vibe without being downright scary. just like the yuppies who are moving in, the retailers want to capitalize on the cache of being in a hip, emerging neighborhood without the growing pains of being pioneers, not to mention enjoying the relatively cheaper rents.

then once the neighborhood has transformed into a full-blown yuppie stronghold with baby strollers everywhere, the national/name brand retailers really start to pour in, with many of the modest businesses from the first wave of gentrification being pushed out due to the higher rents.

in the case of DTLA's retail scene, i think target, ross, ralph's, and brooks brothers are just the tip of the iceberg. the one thing that may complicate matters is the continued presence of skid row, which i'm sure has scared away more than a few chain and independently-owned businesses alike.

This is a good point, though for reassurance perhaps they should just look at the proximity of Union Square to the Tenderloin in San Francisco.

[pbergen]

Originally Posted by munchitup

This is a good point, though for reassurance perhaps they should just look at the proximity of Union Square to the Tenderloin in San Francisco.

yeah, that's a good analogy. there are actually a handful of trendy bars in and around the tenderloin, but that's not too different from some of the restaurants and bars that have popped up on the edges of DTLA's skid row.