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Old 01-24-2014, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,824 posts, read 29,800,951 times
Reputation: 14418

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My family of 4 moved into a 2 bedroom condo 4 1/2 years ago to save money for a house. This condo is 900 sq ft.

We became a family of 5 three years ago. Throughout this process we've had a revolving door of different members of my wife's family staying with us. So there's 6 people here.

It sucks, but we manage.

We are looking to triple our square feet very soon.

Granted, this is not in Los Angeles, but in a city that we'd like to plant permanent roots in before it becomes like LA.
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Old 01-24-2014, 02:58 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,639,159 times
Reputation: 7872
Quote:
Originally Posted by yby1 View Post
I honestly think people need space. Whether a family can live happily in cosmo, urban confines really depend on their means. Do we *really* need a house and do kids really need their own room? No, but it is preferable IMO.

It's nice to have the kids play out in the yard and that outside play is not a half the day or entire day destination. It's nice to have a home office that is not shared with the living room and a million other distractions....it can actually lead to more work, which equals more money.

It's nice to keep sports gear in the garage and not cluttering living space.

The reality is that it's becoming increasingly more expensive to buy a home in Los Angeles as a middle income family when that was not the case 20 years ago. It's not really a complaint, but just reality.
I agree that all these are nice to have.

But I still think most Americans have excessive requirement for space. For example, what's the point of having a living AND a family room? You can easily combine the functions. People with both probably use the former no more than once a week.

I don't think two kids can't share a room. It is absurd. Maybe when they turn 13 or 14, they start to need some personal space, but definitely not before that. A 6 year old definitely doesn't need his own room, nor will he ever ask for it.

As to the yard, there is this thing or attachment to it as if a kid need a yard. Does he? What exactly can a kid do in a private yard, honestly? A yard is probably fun for a 4 year old, when they quickly outgrow a small yard.

The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.

As a kid/teenager I'd rather live in a compact condo in Manhattan than a 3000 sf house in Bel Air anyday.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:39 PM
 
1,714 posts, read 3,834,298 times
Reputation: 1146
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree that all these are nice to have.

But I still think most Americans have excessive requirement for space. For example, what's the point of having a living AND a family room? You can easily combine the functions. People with both probably use the former no more than once a week.

I don't think two kids can't share a room. It is absurd. Maybe when they turn 13 or 14, they start to need some personal space, but definitely not before that. A 6 year old definitely doesn't need his own room, nor will he ever ask for it.

As to the yard, there is this thing or attachment to it as if a kid need a yard. Does he? What exactly can a kid do in a private yard, honestly? A yard is probably fun for a 4 year old, when they quickly outgrow a small yard.

The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.

As a kid/teenager I'd rather live in a compact condo in Manhattan than a 3000 sf house in Bel Air anyday.
Horrible generalization.
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Old 01-24-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: South Bay
7,226 posts, read 22,113,570 times
Reputation: 3626
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.
i grew up in such a neighborhood. it was far from boring. i used to ride my bike to my friends' homes or to the local park to play roller hockey or basketball. sure there were dull moments, but you can't entertain a kid 24/7. you need to remember as well that families tend to flock to the type of places you dislike, which means there are other kids around. i think proximity to other kids is far more important than living in the middle of a big city to the average 13 year old.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:02 PM
 
1,319 posts, read 2,186,378 times
Reputation: 651
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree that all these are nice to have.

But I still think most Americans have excessive requirement for space. For example, what's the point of having a living AND a family room? You can easily combine the functions. People with both probably use the former no more than once a week.

I don't think two kids can't share a room. It is absurd. Maybe when they turn 13 or 14, they start to need some personal space, but definitely not before that. A 6 year old definitely doesn't need his own room, nor will he ever ask for it.

As to the yard, there is this thing or attachment to it as if a kid need a yard. Does he? What exactly can a kid do in a private yard, honestly? A yard is probably fun for a 4 year old, when they quickly outgrow a small yard.

The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.

As a kid/teenager I'd rather live in a compact condo in Manhattan than a 3000 sf house in Bel Air anyday.
You don't think a 6 year old will ask for their own room? Ha.

American can have excessive requirements for space, but that doesn't making owning a SFH excessive. Also, Americans tend to have longer working hours and vacation time than Europeans, which means less time to spend with family outside of the house.

My kids love our yard, you have to make it fun for them. There are also neighborhood kids to play with. Being in LA, you have a chance to go places, even in the LA "burbs" you are just a bike ride away from somewhere more interesting.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:17 PM
 
812 posts, read 1,464,503 times
Reputation: 2134
Quote:
Originally Posted by yby1 View Post
The reality is that it's becoming increasingly more expensive to buy a home in Los Angeles as a middle income family when that was not the case 20 years ago. It's not really a complaint, but just reality.
Sorry to nitpick, but I think "20 years ago" should read "30-40 years ago" and, more realistically for a "middle income" family, more like "50 years ago." Post 1978 (Prop 13), prices in all of Coastal California, and Los Angeles in particular, just started climbing, climbing, climbing, relative to incomes, which was great for those born before roughly 1940, but not so great for those born after roughly 1960. I was born in 1970 and had made the decision to leave West LA for greener patures by age 18 (1988), almost entirely due to the extreme run-up in housing prices, which the "downturn" of early 1990's did nothing to change my belief as to what a house in a decent neighborhood should cost. After finishing grad school in 1996, I moved. It's a free country after all. I have nothing against people getting $500 - $1,500 a square foot for the house they bought back in 1972 for $20 a square foot, I'm just not going to pay that, and I knew I'd never be willing to pay that pretty early on. If you're willing to pay it, then pay it. If not, and you must live in LA, then you'll be a renter. If you want a house, there are dozens of affordable, culturally interesting cities out there, with superb school districts. Our local school district my kids go to here in Colorado blows the Santa Monica Malibu Unified district I grew up with back in the '70's/'80's out of the water. There's no comparison.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Dana Point
1,224 posts, read 1,815,543 times
Reputation: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree that all these are nice to have.

But I still think most Americans have excessive requirement for space. For example, what's the point of having a living AND a family room? You can easily combine the functions. People with both probably use the former no more than once a week.

I don't think two kids can't share a room. It is absurd. Maybe when they turn 13 or 14, they start to need some personal space, but definitely not before that. A 6 year old definitely doesn't need his own room, nor will he ever ask for it.

As to the yard, there is this thing or attachment to it as if a kid need a yard. Does he? What exactly can a kid do in a private yard, honestly? A yard is probably fun for a 4 year old, when they quickly outgrow a small yard.

The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.

As a kid/teenager I'd rather live in a compact condo in Manhattan than a 3000 sf house in Bel Air anyday.
I better tell the 12 or so kids who play touch football with their friends in the neighborhood every weekend, or sometimes go to the beach to play there which is only a short walk away, that they are living "horribly lonely lives" and they should think about how fantastic it would be to live in a high density condo building in the middle of some congested city. How awesome would that be?
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Boulder Creek, CA
9,197 posts, read 16,779,744 times
Reputation: 6373
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
The worst thing with yard is that homes with spacious yards are almost always located in the suburbs where there are nothing except houses. Kids living in those neighbourhoods have horribly lonely lives - safe yes, but extremely boring. Imagine a 13 year old boy stuck in the middle of 200 single family houses without the ability to go anywhere, not even meeting anyone who doesn't live in the same area. Without their parents' car, they are just stuck there for years enduring the miserable teenager life imposed by their parents who think having more space and a yard in the middle of nowhere is good for the family.

As a kid/teenager I'd rather live in a compact condo in Manhattan than a 3000 sf house in Bel Air anyday.
Aha, that's where all this is going. What you are describing are kids with ZERO DRIVE OR IMAGINATION. Thus, they don't have the foggiest idea of what to do with themselves without a gadget or game console in front of them, or what to do without extreme 24-hour city madness and danger perpetually assaulting their ADHD senses.

"A park? A yard? What, like run around or something?"

"Sports? I'm not good enough to make money doing it, you can watch the good ones do it on TV, and...what, like run around or something?"

"Bike? Skateboard? Walk? Mom's got a car."

"Gardening in the yard? Store's got that stuff. Mom's got a car."

"Pets? Ewwwww."

"OK, are we done with this little talk? OMG, I've got, like a million texts and pokes to get to now. Later. Oh, can you bring me a soda?"


Wide open spaces for the kiddies are good things. They might actually get off the couch to go explore them, if they are made available.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,307,196 times
Reputation: 12313
Quote:
Originally Posted by smdensbcs View Post
Sorry to nitpick, but I think "20 years ago" should read "30-40 years ago" and, more realistically for a "middle income" family, more like "50 years ago." Post 1978 (Prop 13), prices in all of Coastal California, and Los Angeles in particular, just started climbing, climbing, climbing, relative to incomes, which was great for those born before roughly 1940, but not so great for those born after roughly 1960. I was born in 1970 and had made the decision to leave West LA for greener patures by age 18 (1988), almost entirely due to the extreme run-up in housing prices, which the "downturn" of early 1990's did nothing to change my belief as to what a house in a decent neighborhood should cost. After finishing grad school in 1996, I moved. It's a free country after all. I have nothing against people getting $500 - $1,500 a square foot for the house they bought back in 1972 for $20 a square foot, I'm just not going to pay that, and I knew I'd never be willing to pay that pretty early on. If you're willing to pay it, then pay it. If not, and you must live in LA, then you'll be a renter. If you want a house, there are dozens of affordable, culturally interesting cities out there, with superb school districts. Our local school district my kids go to here in Colorado blows the Santa Monica Malibu Unified district I grew up with back in the '70's/'80's out of the water. There's no comparison.
True that 30-40yrs ago was cheaper than 20yrs ago. But in the late 1990s it was possible to buy a 3bedroom house in West L.A for around $300,000. So prices have gone up like 300% since then. West LA hasn't really gotten any safer or better since then. So the increase was just based on speculation. The economy hasn't really gotten better , it's actually gotten worse. So this is one market where things like jobs, good schools don't have much of an impact on prices as in other cities.

It definitely is crazy.

I think the best thing for younger people to do is to find a city that has the potential to appreciate similar to L.A .

You'll need to think outside the places that are already hyped up , Austin, Portland,etc. Those markets already seem pretty expensive.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: South Bay
7,226 posts, read 22,113,570 times
Reputation: 3626
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
True that 30-40yrs ago was cheaper than 20yrs ago. But in the late 1990s it was possible to buy a 3bedroom house in West L.A for around $300,000. So prices have gone up like 300% since then. West LA hasn't really gotten any safer or better since then.
I disagree. The number of big name corporations that are now located (or have grown substantially) on the westside has increased dramatically in the last 5 or so years. many of the high profile employers are tech companies that are known to pay very well. i think the real estate boom of the early 2000s really pushed up prices, but a major reason they have held strong since the recession is because of the rise of 'silicon beach'.
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