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Old 02-09-2015, 10:17 PM
 
Location: West Hollywood
3,190 posts, read 3,163,218 times
Reputation: 5262

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Likely played a big part though. Business will always go elsewhere if they can to make a profit.

The heyday of Detroit was when businesses were doing great in Detroit.

Now there are a bunch of boarded up houses which used to be occupied by people that work productive and working.
So blame unions just because, even with no evidence? The workers should have ditched their unions and taken massive cuts in pay to keep auto manufacturers in Detroit? Society should bend over backward to accommodate businesses that feel no loyalty and have no morals? If the auto manufacturers had stayed in Detroit and paid American workers what they paid Mexican and Chinese workers Detroit would have kept crumbling anyway.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:25 AM
 
Location: USA
509 posts, read 767,677 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpeeps View Post
The Big Three started gobbling up all independent auto makers in Detroit in the 30's and they moved/built all of their factories and buildings outside of Detroit. Unions had nothing to do with this. Most businesses Detroit is famous for, aren't actually in Detroit or even in the same county. The Big Three started a trend of businesses being built outside of the booming Detroit including sports franchises.

While I don't disagree that unions helped aide a decline in Detroit, they had nothing to do with why Detroit is the city it is today. There's a host of other reasons after The Big Three left Detroit for the suburbs, including city policies, corrupt officials, government embezzlement, years of debt buildup, funding for public education being cut all present in the 30's. The New Deal and unions like UAW didn't happen until the 40's.
I disagree, the union-culture and mindset was a big part, as was the complacency of the corporate execs. The fighting between the groups made it difficult to focus on building quality cars that could compete with the Japanese. Look at market share. It used be much higher for US companies but they lost ground to foreign companies steadily over the last few decades. Lower quality means lower sales means dipping into dangerous financial territory as cars are a fixed cost, highly leveraged business... hence bankruptcy for GM, the continued demise of the job base in Detroit (and surrounding communities) and hence the current state of that area.

Last edited by dustin183; 02-11-2015 at 03:34 AM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:30 AM
 
Location: USA
509 posts, read 767,677 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Oh, perhaps because it has been proven a failure?

Go back to my Ayn Rand link. And, speaking of studying economics, uh, try it yourself.
Let's take a simple real-world example:

North Korea = centrally-planned, communist/socialist-driven system.

South Korea = capitalist, western-style free market economy.

Prior to the split of Korea, the northern area was actually more prosperous and advanced. Post-split, different story clearly. What we've seen is a real-world petri-dish of two distinct economic systems and the results thereof. I doubt I need to go into more detail, I would hope you are up to speed on current events enough.

Do you believe the north a success, and the south a failure?

Last edited by dustin183; 02-11-2015 at 03:49 AM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:53 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,564 posts, read 16,062,110 times
Reputation: 19586
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin183 View Post
Let's take a simple real-world example:

North Korea = centrally-planned, communist/socialist-driven system.

South Korea = capitalist, western-style free market economy.

Prior to the split of Korea, the northern area was actually more prosperous and advanced. Post-split, different story clearly. What we've seen is a real-world petri-dish of two distinct economic systems and the results thereof. I doubt I need to go into more detail, I would hope you are up to speed on current events enough.

Do you believe the north a success, and the south a failure?
This post, and your previous post, both, frame "success" as a financial quantity. A desired end result. I do not share that completely shallow, in fact vacuous, view of life.

As for using North Korea vs anyplace as an example of any kind of system is to so completely and outrageously, laughably, overlook the character and mental illness behind North Korean leadership and infrastructure of every kind - um, as to render your post comedic.

Simply not one iota of "real world example" about it.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,772 posts, read 104,081,702 times
Reputation: 49243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat View Post
Poll: Most People Want County's Minimum Wage at $15.25 | Brentwood, CA Patch

Why stop at $15.25? Let's make it $50 and hour, and with all the other entitlements many people in transitional jobs get (thanks to the tax paying middle class), let's see just how much more quickly the middle income tax base leaves, so we'll have a two tier economic system consisting of peasants at the bottom and Bolsheviks at the top.

Welcome to the post-American America, not your grandfather's America.
Sure raise it to $15 or more $$ an hour, see how much people will be paying for say, a Micky Dls or Popeyes chicken. We visited Canada a few years ago, high min wage, prices on everything except the subway were out of sight. WE couldn't wait to get back to America where we could afford to eat at a fast food place more than on special occassions. Raise the min wage, all other wages will go up.

What can't people understand about this: min wage jobs were never meant to be livable wage jobs. They are for the first time worker, the person who wants a second job to bring in a few extra bucks or the person, for whatever reason wants to work just part time. They are also for those who have chosen not to inprove their life by learning a skilled craft or further their education.

You and I see this, the give me generation does not.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:42 AM
 
Location: On the water.
21,564 posts, read 16,062,110 times
Reputation: 19586
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
Sure raise it to $15 or more $$ an hour, see how much people will be paying for say, a Micky Dls or Popeyes chicken. We visited Canada a few years ago, high min wage, prices on everything except the subway were out of sight. WE couldn't wait to get back to America where we could afford to eat at a fast food place more than on special occassions. Raise the min wage, all other wages will go up.

What can't people understand about this: min wage jobs were never meant to be livable wage jobs. They are for the first time worker, the person who wants a second job to bring in a few extra bucks or the person, for whatever reason wants to work just part time. They are also for those who have chosen not to inprove their life by learning a skilled craft or further their education.

You and I see this, the give me generation does not.
Everything you have written here is false. Everything. Except the part about how you couldn't wait to get back to a low-cost-fast-food lifestyle. Which helps define you in terms of understanding your other misinformed comments.

Last edited by Tulemutt; 02-11-2015 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: The East
1,557 posts, read 3,285,703 times
Reputation: 2328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondChandlerLives View Post
No incentive. Corporations already have a large batch of useful dummies (right-wing voters) who champion their right to pay slave wages. These voters continually elect politicians who (because they're bought and paid for) automatically vote NO on any wage increases.

These same corporations can then turn around and encourage their employees to go on welfare, which they do. That's right folks, the American taxpayer ends up subsidizing our welfare queen corporations for the crap wages they pay.

As a bonus, since there's no need to recirculate these savings into the economy, CEOs use it fatten their wallets: CEO pay leaps to new record in 2013, AP study says - Fortune
TRUTH! and well said.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:57 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 8,259,394 times
Reputation: 2679
Visit San Francisco and see how much pricier fast food is than here!
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:58 AM
 
4,213 posts, read 8,259,394 times
Reputation: 2679
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Everything you have written here is false. Everything. Except the part about how you couldn't wait to get back to a low-cost-fast-food lifestyle. Which helps define you in terms of understanding your other misinformed comments.
She's not false. She's right. Provide some basis other than your opinion.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Nashville TN
4,918 posts, read 6,419,032 times
Reputation: 4778
15 an hour isn't even much to live in Kentucky.. how do people survive in California on jobs only 12-17 an hour, that boggles my mind.
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