The Midwest is the best if... (Los Angeles, San Francisco: student loans, house, find a job)

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by kingdomkz

You have never owned property and lived in Colorado. This lack of caring about accurate information is exactly why people do not like Californians.

Given that Colorado has nothing to do with the conversation, I guess we can only assume you're posting in the wrong thread?

The rest of your post is even more bizarre. Yosemite is a national park, not a state beach. It has absolutely nothing to do with differences between CA and the Midwest. I have no idea what you're even trying to argue.

[909er]

Still cheaper in the Midwest. And seain dublin sounds like a cheerleader.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by nightbird47

Only a few tornaods have come near Cushing, and the last one with much damage didn't effect most of the town. Not sure where you get your info but it was a while longer than 'a few years ago'. Keep in mind that during storm season (spring) the storms can be loud and fierce but don't hang around long. The vast majority of people in this state who've lived here all their life have never seen a tornado. And with all the chasers and radar and so on, you can know just where storms are. I follow the radar on my laptop and all the tv stations are on telling you exactly where any active storms are.

Personally I'm a lot more worried about the earthquakes which have become so common of late. And this state is actually centered over five distinct climatic zones, from the desert like area near Texas to the wooded green country up near Tulsa. Where I live is hilly and there are lots of trees and a beautiful open sky, on the mixed area leading into Green country. Sceneary is more than what you drive to. There is also no crush of people around you and spring into fall this area is green.

The difference between here and the IE is that the scenery may not be as spectacular as what you can drive to on a weekend there, but its here, not at the end of a long drive. It's not wall to wall people either, if that's something which you seek. And while I'm not in love with the oil stuff, there is little of it in your face. The industrial areas are not in residental areas as a rule. But the real plus is the sky is BLUE, not grey and filled with smog. The IE may have beautiful skies for a few months a year, but once the smog comes in its prevasive. I had to get away from that and when I got her could breath. That sold me instantly.

And weather here isn't that different than socal in a lot of ways. Summer is hot. But people visit the many lakes, and while we're having a drought problem, its far far less than California. Its no hotter here than in socal. In winter it gets cold and we get snow storms, but generally they don't last long.

People don't hide inside the house, but go out for entertainment like everyone else.

The thing which is different, which some of us wish to get away from, is that things don't move at warp speed here. People aren't in a rush. Its relaxing and refreshing. If that appeals to you and your not a fan of socal speed, places like OK and the 'flyover' zone just might make you happy.

In the end we always compromise and there are some, but then if you move TO socal your going to have to do that too.

If a place isn't for you, fine, it isn't but don't just 'generally' bash a whole swath of the country because you traveled through it and it wasn't like home. And 'boring' depends on one's defination of 'boring.

I'd never go back to an area with the smog like socal.

Well Googling Cushing/Tornadoes begs to differ. Especially what you can see on You Tube. You live in tornado country.

IDK where you get the long drive to scenery, I step outside my front door and see mountains, the ocean is a short drive away. Sorry I went to college in your part of the country, people were very nice, but the air did smell of oil and cow s**t, the terrain was mostly flat, and the weather severe. From wind storms, to hail, to snowing one day and than 80 degrees the next.

And it depends on what you mean by entertainment. Just having an Applebees and going to the multiplex doesn't always count as entertainment. Maybe for some, but not others.

And compared to the east coast Southern CA is very laid back and I have always found people friendlier than the northeast. I have also experienced the "bless your heart" mentality of the south, where it is for the most part very superficial.

Why do you spend so much time bashing Southern CA? It's your choice not to like it, but why so much energy spent on the CA boards and every post all you do is bash the place?

Originally Posted by 909er

Still cheaper in the Midwest. And seain dublin sounds like a cheerleader.

Well if you mean by cheerleader that of the 5 states I have lived in I prefer CA, than sign me up.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but I have family and long time friends here, the best weather in the country IMO, some amazing scenery, and as I said I have always found people(especially the CA natives) to be friendly people.

If you don't like it here, than head to the Midwest.

I can tell you from first hand experience that living in a place that you don't like in regards to weather, lack of things to do, can't find people you have much in common with, big salary cut(that doesn't quite cover the lower COL) well other than a serious illness or being flat broke, it's a close third in the miserable dept. Living somewhere you love vs a place you can't stand(even after you try and make the best of it) impacts your life in every way.

Sometimes it takes leaving a place to find out how much you miss it, or took for granted what was right outside your front door.

[StreetLegal]

Originally Posted by 909er

Still cheaper in the Midwest.

Yes but "cheaper" does not always mean better.

The American Human Development Index measures well being of residents based on income, health care, life expectancy and access to education among other things.

California ranks higher than all of the Midwestern states with the exception of progressive Minnesota.

List of U.S. states by American Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[znlwovuhrjw]

Originally Posted by StreetLegal

Yes but "cheaper" does not always mean better.

The American Human Development Index measures well being of residents based on income, health care, life expectancy and access to education among other things.

California ranks higher than all of the Midwestern states with the exception of progressive Minnesota.

List of U.S. states by American Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This index is not an accurate measurement of economic success and does not accurately represent quality of life.

Against the Human Development Index, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

[HyperionGap]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

Why do you spend so much time bashing Southern CA? It's your choice not to like it, but why so much energy spent on the CA boards and every post all you do is bash the place?

People are jealous of what they can't have.

[znlwovuhrjw]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Not necessarily.

For one, you are only looking at income tax. Property taxes are much lower in CA than in the Midwest.

Also, utility costs are far higher in the Midwest. The winters have added costs, from snow removal, to heating, to wear and tear on your property.

CA has higher taxes but more services. The free beaches and parks in CA will be $10 or $20 in the Midwest. The better roads in CA will be potholed in the Midwest.

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Given that Colorado has nothing to do with the conversation, I guess we can only assume you're posting in the wrong thread?

The rest of your post is even more bizarre. Yosemite is a national park, not a state beach. It has absolutely nothing to do with differences between CA and the Midwest. I have no idea what you're even trying to argue.

Apparently Colorado is "just barely" not part of the midwest and has a significantly cheaper property taxes than California. Since you can't seem to pick up on reading about Colorado property taxes, I'll do it for you: If you purchase a house in Larimer County of CO at an appraised value of $300,000 your property taxes will be $1,920 per year meanwhile that house will cost you $3,000 per year in California. To counter back at your potential accusation of cherry picking on the data, let's pick some more counties in Colorado for the same appraised value: El Paso County - $1,410/yr, Gunnison County - $960/yr, and Sagguache County - $1,200/yr. Lazily thrown together google searches about low property taxes don't automatically equate to great deals, but rather create fantasy depictions of realistic costs per year in other and significantly cheaper portions of the US.

To clear up some false notions about midwest property taxes on a home appraised price of $300,000, let's explore choosing counties in midwest states that are well below 1%! North Dakota - Burke County $2,490/yr, Ohio - Brown County $2,850/yr, South Dakota - Ziebach County $2,910/yr, and Indiana - Daviess County $2,490/yr. Yes of course there are many property tax rates in those states as well as the other midwest states that go well into 1.1-3% but you will find that everything else will cost significantly less as well. At least you can CHOOSE to pay less on property taxes by choosing a different county, but in California you will ALWAYS pay 1%.

Correlating an example to talk about "higher property taxes" in states with a rate higher than the 1% of California is "bizarre" because you don't seem to understand that somewhere in the United States there are cheaper houses that will always have a cheaper property taxes per year because of overall assessment values that will never go to the 6-7 digit extremes of California.

Let's cover another piece of information you assumed to be true, because you've never been to the entirety of the United States, nor cared to check your information: Comparing Road, Bridge Quality by State - Real Time Economics - WSJ

California has some of the worst road quality in the entire US.

Moving on to the state services that you claim to be top of the line, where do you get that information? States With the Most (and Least) Government Benefits - 24/7 Wall St.

California is not in the Top-10 list for government benefits.

The States With the Worst Healthcare Systems - The Atlantic

California is among the bottom of the list in healthcare quality.

Let's move back to the cost of going to the state beaches, because I didn't clarify enough the first time, that you also claim to be "free".

Laguna Beach, CA - Parking Information

The cost of going to Laguna Beach is $1.25-$2.25/hr

https://www.newportbeachca.gov/index.aspx?page=468

The cost of going to Newport Beach is $2.50-$4.50/hr

City of Huntington Beach, CA - Beach Parking and Camping

The cost of going to Huntington Beach is $1-$2.50/hr

Now let's finally cover the cost of going to the local parks in the midwest, because apparently you believe that going to the park costs money.

Omaha, Nebraska: Parks - City of Omaha Parks and Recreation - Free.

Overland Park, Kansas: Parks – City of Overland Park - Free.

Cleveland, Ohio: City of Cleveland :: Parks & Playgrounds - Free.

To check some additional claims about the cost of going to national parks that may have been indirectly included in the vague "parks" mention, let's check those too just in case you might be mistaken:

Let's start with California:

Yosemite National Park - $30 per vehicle (If you leave the park area, you must pay again.)

Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Park - $20 per vehicle (7 days)

Alcatraz Island - $30 per person, $5/hr parking, and $5 for the toll to get into San Francisco (1 visit)

Now let's look at the cost of the Midwest Parks!

Cuyahoga National Park - Ohio Fees & Passes - Cuyahoga Valley National Park (U.S. National Park Service) - Free (Eternity)

Badlands National Park - South Dakota Fees - Badlands National Park (U.S. National Park Service) - $15 (7 days)

Theordore Roosevelt National Park - North Dakota Fees & Passes - Theodore Roosevelt National Park (U.S. National Park Service) - $20 (7 days)

Tallgrass National Preserve - Kansas Fees & Passes - Tallgrass Prairie National Preserve (U.S. National Park Service) - Free (Forever)

George Rogers Clark National Park - Indiana Fees & Reservations - George Rogers Clark National Historical Park (U.S. National Park Service) - Free (Infinity and Beyond)

Voyageurs National Park - Minnesota Fees & Reservations - Voyageurs National Park (U.S. National Park Service) - Free (...and ever and ever and ever)

Not only were you incorrect about the state parks and public parks, we also proved that California has some of the most expensive national parks in the United States!

PLEASE, tell me where you get your information, I gotta meet these credible sources!

[Swandaddy]

LA is my spirit city but with my career Chicago is the best place for me to be right now. And Chicago at times feels like the total epitome of the Midwest and other times it doesn't. It's a phenomenon I still can't quite wrap my head around. I've met friends here from all over the world -- Korea, Saudi Arabia, Haiti, etc etc etc, but I've also met friends from Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, etc. I fell in love with a guy who has family both here and SoCal. Many of my friends have moved to SoCal.

Part of me thinks that it would be good for me to eventually move somewhere actually out of the Midwest but then again things are starting to (fingers crossed) really turn for me in positive directions here, especially with the career.

Even if I don't ultimately move from here, I definitely need to be traveling more, but hey--O'Hare is a doorstep to just about anywhere. So, end of mindless meandering -- who knows??

[StreetLegal]

Originally Posted by kingdomkz

This index is not an accurate measurement of economic success and does not accurately represent quality of life.

Against the Human Development Index, Bryan Caplan | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

Says you and one economist from the Cato Institute...anything ranking that might rank the Swedes higher than the USA can't be right.

[znlwovuhrjw]

Originally Posted by StreetLegal

Says you and one economist from the Cato Institute...anything ranking that might rank the Swedes higher than the USA can't be right.

You don't even bother reading and care not to:

Rethinking the HDI: A More Theoretically Consistent Alternative by Seth Omondi Gor, Ciliaka Millicent Wanjiru Gitau :: SSRN

"Beyond GDP: The Need for New Measures of Progress" by Robert Costanza, Maureen Hart et al.

The HDI 2010: new controversies, old critiques - Springer

Unless you have a PhD in Economics and Sociology as well as research papers to back up your claim, be prepared to defend your belief against university research.