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Sorry, Sean but there ain't no amount of thinking that you've found a better standard of living by adopting a mindset that's going to trump the economic reality that you get more bang for your buck elsewhere. The only thing you guys run on is thinking the heartland is boring sweltering undeveloped mess. It's not but if that cushions the economic choices you've made so be it. I do believe it comes down to preference, but the choice is do you prefer to pay more for less quantity to get better quality. If that's you have it, hoss. It's a free country but don't try to say that it's not a better deal cus you guys save on electric bills cus there's less humidity and you don't have to blast the AC. LOL.
If we are talking pure value then most ppl will take a look at LA, see the job figures and the real wages offered and say, "yeah I'll just visit". If they don't share the idea that living in a Ferrari city next to the cool beach is just a value in itself it doesn't mean they're yolkels meant to live out in the sticks. Or heck, you guys don't even use derogatory terms, you guys just use the state itself as a cut down; AL is apparently a dirty word, eh?
It ain't all about you, son.
I was talking to a friend yesterday , they currently live in O.C but his wife applied to work in SF. Even though she would be getting a pretty significant raise they felt that it would mostly be eaten up by a higher cost of living in SF.
I'm sure most people do this when looking at L.A too, which is why we are also seeing more of an income gap. Especially if people are coming from an area where they have a home and they have kids, unless they are getting paid a lot it's unlikely they would move to L.A
Of course if they are moving from NYC or possibly parts of Europe or SF and would be getting paid an equal salary here they might view L.A as a better value..it's all relative.
There are only so many 6 figure plus jobs though right?
Increasingly it seems that we have high income earners and then an underclass that is serving them.
Even college grads and people that would of been "in the middle class" previously in L.A and owned their own homes in decent areas are now baristas, assistants for the wealthy or doing some type of other job that barely afford them an older apartment in a so so area .
This is why there is quite a bit of churn in L.A , it attracts the people that want to have a good time for a little while and maybe "find themselves"
Although I think this has changed a bit , with other cities getting more developed with more things to do.
You hear the stories of how people would leave and go to bigger cities after college, but some are choosing to come back or stay in their cities after college.
Gentrification and hipsterdom is sweeping the nation.
Now there are even 'gentrification fears' in cities like Buffalo,.NY!
"It’s not just their imagination.
Residents around downtown, the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus and the waterfront concerned about gentrification now have numbers to validate their fears.
Sorry, Sean but there ain't no amount of thinking that you've found a better standard of living by adopting a mindset that's going to trump the economic reality that you get more bang for your buck elsewhere. The only thing you guys run on is thinking the heartland is boring sweltering undeveloped mess. It's not but if that cushions the economic choices you've made so be it. I do believe it comes down to preference, but the choice is do you prefer to pay more for less quantity to get better quality. If that's you have it, hoss. It's a free country but don't try to say that it's not a better deal cus you guys save on electric bills cus there's less humidity and you don't have to blast the AC. LOL.
If we are talking pure value then most ppl will take a look at LA, see the job figures and the real wages offered and say, "yeah I'll just visit". If they don't share the idea that living in a Ferrari city next to the cool beach is just a value in itself it doesn't mean they're yolkels meant to live out in the sticks. Or heck, you guys don't even use derogatory terms, you guys just use the state itself as a cut down; AL is apparently a dirty word, eh?
It ain't all about you, son.
Ah but you see you're wrong. I did live for 6 years in the southeast US, in a lower COL state. And I never got used to the humidity, how flat it was, and didn't care for the people in general.
Maybe it's not important to you, but it is to me to live somewhere where I don't have to run from the A/C house to the A/C car to the A/C store for several months out of the year. Or if I want to go see an independent film hope I can order it on Netflix.
I also got tired of hearing about "Christian" someone was, when I saw what I would call a lot of "non Christian" behavior. I prefer living in a place where when people are strangers and you get into casual conversations, they're on more "neutral" subjects.
When I moved back to CA I had a relative ask me(I was at their house)"what are you staring at", I said "those gorgeous mountains".....LOL.
If you don't like CA, and don't live in CA, why are you here on this thread?
And where did I put down AL? I was pointing out that a smart person would have gotten a modest home or a slight upgrade in their move from CA to AL. This poster was retired, why do you need a 4,000 sq. foot house when it's you and your wife?
That's all. It's stupid to move to a lower COL state and than spend the difference on some huge house(with huge taxes), upkeep, and buy other things you don't need.
A smart person would invest the difference, not p**s it away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982
That's great your father was able to retire at 55 and have 30 years of retirement.
I also read that although many plan to work until their later years...many times this isn't even a possibility for many because of health issues and because of layoffs,etc.
This happened to a former manager of mine .She was planning to continue to work, but the place she works is "going through changes" and pretty much made it clear that they don't want her there anymore.. After over 30 years!
Luckily she has enough saved/invested to retire..
I think a lot of people move out of state just because they can't find anything they can afford in L.A , even a modest or small house..not necessarily that they want a McMansion....there are places you can get a McMansion way less than 1/2 of the cost of a small house in the hood' in L.A though. Some land and property is amazingly cheap in parts of the U.S
I agree though it's dumb to move for economic reasons and then still be broke.
"We moved out of L.A..now we can finally 'afford' , the brand new SUV, the boat and all the toys we couldn't before!"
It's hard to feel too sorry for people that spend their money in really wasteful ways if they can't afford it.
Different than someone that is having a hard time affording the necessities.
It was great, but it was due to being financially smart.
I bolded what you said because it is so true.
I know a single person who left CA and bought a huge house in Idaho. They're one person in their 50s, why do you need a four bedroom house, they also got a boat, and have a car and a truck.
This debate reminds me of the spats between luxury car owners and American muscle car owners. The Ferrari owners might ask the guy who bought the mustang cobra, you could afford a Ferrari so why a mustang? Dude looks back and says better deal, cool car and it doesn't break the bank. The Ferrari guy prolly thinks what a yokel, doesn't know true quality when it's in his face. When the other guy just likes his mustang and isn't looking for anything fancy. He just wants a nice car that's fast and prefers American. Some guys just want a Ford Raptor.
I do agree though that the keeping up with joneses is nuts in these booming southern towns.
The problem is the "LA/CA is too expensive crowd" don't want to face the reality that where they live appeals to such a wide range of folks on all levels (families, singles, rich, poor, "race", "educated vs. "uneducated", etc) that if you can't afford/adapt to the times there are thousands of other folks who will. This has been true forever and only accelerated in the last 35 years with the collapse of the Midwest's industrial base.
The Rust Belt gentrification of downtowns as noted by the previous poster is relatively new and not time-tested. When those younger singles get older in an area still overwhelmingly defined by high school football, ethnic festivals, and raffles they too will succumb to the white picket fence with Fido standing guard over 2.1 children.
I couldn't get my lifestyle growing up in the Rust Belt. I don't drink, smoke, gamble, eat garbage, or have a desire to stain my patio deck on a Saturday.
There are no mountains to hike and I haven't stepped foot in Lake Erie since I was a kid. I'll never confuse it with the Pacific.
Ok so essentially it's still about how the Midwest sucks and doesn't have art house cinemas and a fancy beach? The value you guys have is clearly priceless but that still doesn't stop a smart property owner to gouge you for it, LOL.
I was talking specifically about developing cities with comparable (but not exact) amenities to LA yet offer cimparabe (in some sectors higher) real wages and affordable housing.
Heck I could buy a house for 5k in boonies Michigan but I know there is nothing out there. That's not my point yet you guys are stuck on it and hammer it home as though it's my point.
You guys can keep chalking it up to unmeasurable things like the serenity of the beach, the locals, the vibe or whatever else you guys think accounts for the actual real cost that you'll be paying but in the end the real measurable value lies elsewhere in the states. And what's the next complaint? That these "yokels" are buying too much stuff?! LOL. Sure some keep up with the joneses, I agree but to berate a single guy for buying a big four bedroom house is laughable. Most people would say, "what? where?".
And on the point of there always being people to fill the gap and adjusting to "changing times" that will flock to LA. Yes, the supply of insecure people who feel trapped in the heartland and want an escape and (depending on where they're from) left a booming low cost environment to lower their standard if living to shack up four to a one bedroom in a high cost old apt near the beach, will never be in short supply.
I used to be one of those types. I still am to a certain degree. I love CA but I quickly had a moment of clarity when I talked to a temp in my office who was 45 and had moved to Dallas but was back in LA and I asked him to share his story and he said he moved out to Dallas because his sister moved out there and he landed a high paying leasing/office manager position and was living in a nice high rise and loving the professional life but just wasn't happy because he felt he was missing out on the life here in LA. I asked him what did he mean? He said he liked the feeling of being in relevant worldly city and mentioned half a dozen other subjective intangible unmeasurable things that made me think, Jesus this guy is 45 and sounds like me at age 25! Now he's temping at my office for
15 bucks an hour. I've got to change my priorities before I end up like that. So unless I land a 200k+ job I myself will feel the opposite of what people back home are feeling; the joy of family, financial security, home ownership, owning land, starting a biz, etc. Those might just seem like "preferences" to y'all but they're measurable, tangible and real (assets). I guess I'm just on the other side of the fence now, knowing what people must've thought of me when I was spouting those intangible preferences to ppl back home, and seeing me scramble to make it work. I'm doing just fine in CA I lucked out but I'm all trying to say is I fully understand why people would move. So don't bust their chops about it.
Ok so essentially it's still about how the Midwest sucks and doesn't have art house cinemas and a fancy beach? The value you guys have is clearly priceless but that still doesn't stop a smart property owner to gouge you for it, LOL.
I was talking specifically about developing cities with comparable (but not exact) amenities to LA yet offer cimparabe (in some sectors higher) real wages and affordable housing.
Heck I could buy a house for 5k in boonies Michigan but I know there is nothing out there. That's not my point yet you guys are stuck on it and hammer it home as though it's my point.
You guys can keep chalking it up to unmeasurable things like the serenity of the beach, the locals, the vibe or whatever else you guys think accounts for the actual real cost that you'll be paying but in the end the real measurable value lies elsewhere in the states. And what's the next complaint? That these "yokels" are buying too much stuff?! LOL. Sure some keep up with the joneses, I agree but to berate a single guy for buying a big four bedroom house is laughable. Most people would say, "what? where?".
And on the point of there always being people to fill the gap and adjusting to "changing times" that will flock to LA. Yes, the supply of insecure people who feel trapped in the heartland and want an escape and (depending on where they're from) left a booming low cost environment to lower their standard if living to shack up four to a one bedroom in a high cost old apt near the beach, will never be in short supply.
I used to be one of those types. I still am to a certain degree. I love CA but I quickly had a moment of clarity when I talked to a temp in my office who was 45 and had moved to Dallas but was back in LA and I asked him to share his story and he said he moved out to Dallas because his sister moved out there and he landed a high paying leasing/office manager position and was living in a nice high rise and loving the professional life but just wasn't happy because he felt he was missing out on the life here in LA. I asked him what did he mean? He said he liked the feeling of being in relevant worldly city and mentioned half a dozen other subjective intangible unmeasurable things that made me think, Jesus this guy is 45 and sounds like me at age 25! Now he's temping at my office for
15 bucks an hour. I've got to change my priorities before I end up like that. So unless I land a 200k+ job I myself will feel the opposite of what people back home are feeling; the joy of family, financial security, home ownership, owning land, starting a biz, etc. Those might just seem like "preferences" to y'all but they're measurable, tangible and real (assets). I guess I'm just on the other side of the fence now, knowing what people must've thought of me when I was spouting those intangible preferences to ppl back home, and seeing me scramble to make it work. I'm doing just fine in CA I lucked out but I'm all trying to say is I fully understand why people would move. So don't bust their chops about it.
It isn't the "Midwest sucks". It's the "Midwest is one size fits one".
It isn't "L.A./SoCal is great". It's "L.A./SoCal is one size fits all"
Of course this is a big generalization but it's just the way it is.
The emerging cities with a cosmopolitan feel outside L.A. theory only goes so far...and in my opinion not far at all. I mean, L.A./SoCal can't be replicated.
Buffalo can. It's called Cleveland.
Columbus can. It's called Charlotte.
Dallas can. It's called Atlanta.
That's the point here. That's why SoCal/L.A. is so expensive: there is no substitute and Joe Single as well as Joe Family Man can both be happy here on a very long sliding scale of what defines their happiness.
The whole west coast has this vibe. That's why San Diego feels so different from Orange County to L.A. to San Fran to Seattle and so on. Their original genetic makeups weren't homogenized in mindset when it comes to life/work/family as was the case for the Midwest or South. That's the feeling I get when I'm in those places.
I'm not arguing that it's fine and dandy how expensive it is out here. I wish it was as cheap as the Rust Belt. I just understand why it is so expensive and can't figure out how others don't see this.
Then again, maybe you have to do a tour of duty in Cleveland or Pittsburgh (as I have) to know this paradigm.
It isn't the "Midwest sucks". It's the "Midwest is one size fits one".
It isn't "L.A./SoCal is great". It's "L.A./SoCal is one size fits all"
Of course this is a big generalization but it's just the way it is.
The emerging cities with a cosmopolitan feel outside L.A. theory only goes so far...and in my opinion not far at all. I mean, L.A./SoCal can't be replicated.
Buffalo can. It's called Cleveland.
Columbus can. It's called Charlotte.
Dallas can. It's called Atlanta.
That's the point here. That's why SoCal/L.A. is so expensive: there is no substitute and Joe Single as well as Joe Family Man can both be happy here on a very long sliding scale of what defines their happiness.
The whole west coast has this vibe. That's why San Diego feels so different from Orange County to L.A. to San Fran to Seattle and so on. Their original genetic makeups weren't homogenized in mindset when it comes to life/work/family as was the case for the Midwest or South. That's the feeling I get when I'm in those places.
I'm not arguing that it's fine and dandy how expensive it is out here. I wish it was as cheap as the Rust Belt. I just understand why it is so expensive and can't figure out how others don't see this.
Then again, maybe you have to do a tour of duty in Cleveland or Pittsburgh (as I have) to know this paradigm.
How does LA "can't be replicated" factor into an actual cost? Is that why I'm paying 1400 for a junior one bedroom studio that's supposedly been renovated but in reality the complex just added new appliances and cheap tile to make it look like wood floor. I'm far from the beach, I'm not in a hip neighborhood.
It's good to at least question if you're getting a good value and not just think yeah it's LA it's cool to charge me an arm, a leg and an eye ball. Not everything owners in an expensive city do can just be touted as a rational self interest. Meanwhile argue that whenever people do complain or join advocacy groups to push the city to raise wages and enact more affordable housing initiatives that that is just poor economics. That's just being too convenient.
It isn't the "Midwest sucks". It's the "Midwest is one size fits one".
It isn't "L.A./SoCal is great". It's "L.A./SoCal is one size fits all"
Of course this is a big generalization but it's just the way it is.
The emerging cities with a cosmopolitan feel outside L.A. theory only goes so far...and in my opinion not far at all. I mean, L.A./SoCal can't be replicated.
Buffalo can. It's called Cleveland.
Columbus can. It's called Charlotte.
Dallas can. It's called Atlanta.
That's the point here. That's why SoCal/L.A. is so expensive: there is no substitute and Joe Single as well as Joe Family Man can both be happy here on a very long sliding scale of what defines their happiness.
The whole west coast has this vibe. That's why San Diego feels so different from Orange County to L.A. to San Fran to Seattle and so on. Their original genetic makeups weren't homogenized in mindset when it comes to life/work/family as was the case for the Midwest or South. That's the feeling I get when I'm in those places.
I'm not arguing that it's fine and dandy how expensive it is out here. I wish it was as cheap as the Rust Belt. I just understand why it is so expensive and can't figure out how others don't see this.
Then again, maybe you have to do a tour of duty in Cleveland or Pittsburgh (as I have) to know this paradigm.
Great comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99
How does LA "can't be replicated" factor into an actual cost? Is that why I'm paying 1400 for a junior one bedroom studio that's supposedly been renovated but in reality the complex just added new appliances and cheap tile to make it look like wood floor. I'm far from the beach, I'm not in a hip neighborhood.
It's good to at least question if you're getting a good value and not just think yeah it's LA it's cool to charge me an arm, a leg and an eye ball. Not everything owners in an expensive city do can just be touted as a rational self interest. Meanwhile argue that whenever people do complain or join advocacy groups to push the city to raise wages and enact more affordable housing initiatives that that is just poor economics. That's just being too convenient.
And instead of paying $1,400 a month for a junior one bedroom you could do a roommate situation and cut that down to $800 a month for a very nice two bed/two bath. You could even be closer to the beach.
BTW, not everyone loves the beach who lives in Southern CA. I like being by the mountains myself. But I know it's close by if I want to go.
Again it's about your overhead. If you shaved say $600 a month off your rent in a year you have banked $7,200 a year which you could invest.
I'm not arguing that it's fine and dandy how expensive it is out here. I wish it was as cheap as the Rust Belt. I just understand why it is so expensive and can't figure out how others don't see this. Then again, maybe you have to do a tour of duty in Cleveland or Pittsburgh (as I have) to know this paradigm.
A perfect summary of this thread. (Can't rep you again.)
So again, outside of supply not meeting demand, what other factors can you guys enumerate to justify the costs that don't amount to things that are intangible? I understand the beach towns but what about in Sun Valley?
And the solutions keep amounting to adjust your living standards to accommodate. So get out of living on my own to moving into another place with a roomie? That's lowering my living standard further to enjoy the quality of life which you guys can't place as anything but subjective preferences; cool vibes, nice eats, weather, none of which are all that near me (Valley is hotter).
LA should be more expensive than Boise, that's a given. Never argued that. But by how much and especially when it lacks a lot of things that make other cities expensive; two of the most important being higher real wages to offset the COL and job growth.
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