Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
When I was a kid here there was traffic week days but weekends had open fwys not anymore. I too have wondered ( usually when I'm on a fwy) if one day there will be total grid lock and no fwys will move at all. It just gets worse and worse and the LA fwys (I'm talking to you 5 fwy) are ancient and ugly and always packed. I just wonder what will become of LA 20 years from now. I took the metro to LA on a Sat and it was almost empty
Surprising the Metro to LA on a Saturday was almost empty. I regularly take the SB line on Saturdays and it's always pretty full. Not a packed as on weekdays but very well utilized. $10 day pass is a great deal.
I was surprised to bgs1762. I took it from Santa Ana to union station and was impressed how clean and nice and quick it all was. There was a little more people on it going back but still 80% empty. I don't go to LA a lot cause I hate it but when I do I'll def try to metro again. I agree 10.00 is a small price to pay for low stress no gas wear and tear on my car. The only bummer was it stopped running pretty early so you can't take it to a night event
To the OP's question, I used to commute from Alta Loma to Commerce in the early 1990s and it was 90 min (except on Fridays when it was 50 min in the AM and just a big mess in the PM). My daughter claimed when she stayed at our house in the past few years it took 2 hours to commute to northeast LA. So I guess it has become worse regardless of Metrolink.
Metrolink had not started when I made that commute and I had started working in San Bernardino by the time it existed. When we lived in the Chicago area, my wife and I had 1.5 hour commutes on the train from our suburban residence to our jobs. Basically 10 min to the train station. Another 10 min to get parked and up to the platform. Then average 5 min on the platform. 45 min on the train. 10 min out of the train station. Another 15 to your desk. We could sleep, read, or study.
So on my commute to Commerce I chose to use the express buses that ran betwen LA and the IE. It turned to a much less stressful commute, but a little over 2 hours. Were I working in DTLA instead of Commerce, it would have been about 1.5 hours tops. I think with the housing prices in LA, the commuting patterns will continue.
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGS91762
Yes you think that proximity to transit would be a main consideration where a business locates or expands. For example, a business in London would never even consider locating far from transit lines. Hope that mentality catches on in LA!!!
Not happening in So Cal. There are certain focal points, like DTLA, Irvine, LAX area, Hollywood, and the county seats of Riverside, San Bernardino, and Santa Ana. Those are too many focal points for good transit, plus there is a lot of employment not in the areas mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echoParkDate
For the last two decades or so, the prediction has been that as the IE develops, it will develop its own jobs base and people won't need to commute to LA.
It hasn't happened. Middle class jobs continue to be very scarce in the IE. I don't know why that is.
It seems as though all the job growth is low-paid warehouse jobs in the new distribution centers out there.
First, there is small incremental job growth that doesn't make headlines. ESRI is has about 1000 employees in Redlands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical
Because the IE is nothing but tract homes, strip malls for low wage retail, and back-breaking low wage warehouse jobs.
If you are lucky maybe you can land a Government job or a trucking gig. Other than that, it is commuting in to LA/OC
Agree with you that Govenment jobs are the most lucrative. Outside of that, it is mostly small businiess, plus colleges and medical. There may be some small percent of physicians commuting from LA, but our doctors and dentists mostly live in the IE.
Also since we have two county seats, there are plenty of defense attorneys needed, and civil attorneys as well. Plus, the warehouses need managers, and vice presidents of warehouses. Then there are business owners, branch managers, and software engineers. I worked for a software company in San Bernardino for 22 years. In 2014 the New Yorkers that bought our company moved the operation to Texas I think of all the cities on that list of who commuted out of the county, the highest was 53% but for Rancho Cucamonga it was 37%
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal88
No question that the IE has a large economy and a great medical center in Loma Linda.
That being said, you've got a fair number of people who are there because they have pushed out of LA/OC counties.
There are some nicer/more upsacle parts such as Rancho Cucamonga, Chino, and some hills up in Riverside and Corona, but other than that, IE is mostly lower/middle class with individuals who live there because there is no other affordable choice.
I never lived in LA, LA County, or OC. When I moved to Alta Loma from Illinois, I could have easily moved to LA/OC, or Ventura County at that time as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by socal88
I mean lower class / middle class rather than lower middle specifically. Putting the slash would've helped.
You have middle upper class / upper class areas like Rancho and other areas I've mentioned, but I'd say most of the IE falls under lower class / middle class.
Also, there might be debate as to where the IE technically begins. I'd generally consider it to be San Bernardino and Riverside counties. I used to live in Upland for a brief period and considered that to be the northwestern boundary of the IE, but if I was to add Claremont, La Verne, Diamond Bar and a couple other eastern LA county cities with higher median home values than the majority of the IE, then yes, I would agree that the western parts of the IE have upper middle class / upper class areas.
Geographically, the IE is east of Kellogg Hill. That's also where the area code split is. That includes Claremont, which is just across a non-physical boundary from Upland, plus LaVerne, San Dimas, and Pomona. Physically they are in the IE, plus I can't see any prestige gained from pretending to be in the SGV.
I am puzzled by LA County and OC residents wanting to cast the IE as lower class when LA County is represented by a large lower class as well, while the same exists in OC but in smaller numbers.
In the meantime IE residents own houses that sell for 2 or 3x the price per sqft as houses in Texas but are 300 miles closer to the beach and can get to skiing or Vegas without an airplane.
... My M.O. is that if you can't stand the traffic and aren't bound by family obligations or anything else forcing you to stay, pack your bags and move somewhere else. There's plenty of other real estate in this country.
I knew a fellow who had family in Oregon in the '90s. The people up there despised California expats so much --- because their real estate costs were being inflated by California buyers --- that when he crossed state lines he traded his truck for a rental just to ditch his CA license plate. Here's the thing: Getting out of over-congested SoCal requires a job offer somewhere else and/or family members with whom you can double up while you attempt to become a "local" elsewhere. Landing an out-of-state job is easier said than done for a lot of folks. A lot of out-of-state employers won't even consider applicants who are coming in that far and why should they if they have local people who are just as qualified to take the job? If you're high up enough on the corporate ladder to get a job anywhere else in the country with relatively little effort you can probably also afford the price of living in OC/LA county so it's a wash.
Many people who move to the Inland Empire either did so before the traffic became as bad as it is today --- back in the '80s when the development of the IE really began to skyrocket --- or they move there in search of affordable housing without appreciating how much the commute costs will offset what they save in housing costs. Even public transit, with lots of stops, is slow and relatively costly for a 60+ mile commute one way. I suspect a lot of people who move to the IE miscalculate either the time or the cost of living so far away from work and then end up stuck because their wages don't support moving any closer to where they work.
I think we have to question the development incentives in LA/OC. The land values are so high that oftentimes the only developments that make sense are $700K+ single family homes. This means, among other things, that the cost of apartment living also goes up as more and more people are forced to rent because they can't afford to own. Apartment rents here meet or exceed a mortgage payment nearly anywhere else in the country because new multifamily housing is in even shorter supply. Local governments make a big to-do about new housing development but there are no real requirements on the part of County/State officials for affordability. LA ranks the worst on national affordability indexes even alongside San Francisco and New York thanks to few rent control provisions alongside lower median wages.
As built-out as the LA/OC area is, there IS land to be developed, especially with so much vacant retail space opening up as the Big Box retailers die a slow death to the likes of Amazon. Developers, with the support of local government officials, are using these parcels of land to offer homes that far outpace what the surrounding area can support. I don't see how this practice of building above and beyond what the market can bear can continue unless, perhaps, the developers are offloading risks onto taxpayers (local government, if not also State/Fed). If this is going to change, however, the entire incentive process will have to be revamped.
The trend is to erect luxury housing developments in working class SoCal neighborhoods. Much of LA/OC consists of single-level 1940-1960s track homes that are going for roughly $500k even as they sit in the shadow of new multistory single family homes priced at $700-$800k. Either the lower-cost homes nearby will drag down the value of the new housing developments or the new developments will inflate the value of the aging neighborhoods that surround them. Either way, the trend worsens the housing problem.
What makes SoCal housing development trends suspect is the fact that a lot of these new developments will sit nearly 50 percent unoccupied for 3-6 years or longer after completion. That says to me that the market does not have a "demand" for UNaffordable housing even though the location may be considered "prime" (close to OC/LA area jobs). It also says to me that if you have $700-$800K to spend on a home in the first place, you are probably not going to buy into an area surrounded by a working class neighborhood (at the risk of more crime and/or lowered property values). Even though it doesn't add up, this is the kind of "new housing" that continues to show up in LA/OC despite decades-worth of mounting demand not only for more affordable single family homes but more affordable rental housing. I can't help but assume there is some sort of tax write-off or risk transference ("incentive") that SoCal developers have grown accustomed to obtaining, which may explain WHY over-priced developments are offered time after time, year after year, yet sit half vacant afterward .
Just to be perfectly clear, it's not longer a case of people moving out of LA/OC in search of a McMansion in some outlying desert community --- as was the case back in the '80s/'90s. Today, relocating to the IE is as much about finding an affordable apartment let alone an affordable single-family home. An NPR article out a few years ago indicates that the average one-bedroom LA apartment --- bearing in mind that most apartment buildings in LA are 50+ years old and not really "worth" the rents they command --- requires an income of nearly $70K per year. The days when a tenant can work at a minimum wage job and afford, even, a studio apartment in LA/OC are on the wane. The affordable housing crisis is so dire that over-crowding of apartments and small single-family homes is the next likely path of "fallout". Has this compelled State and local officials to coordinate a vision for how to restore quality of life in this state? No. One can only assume State and local government officials are asleep at the switch OR they are funded by the developers and have no incentive to serve the people who elect them.
In conclusion, I don't think SoCal residents who move to the IE and commute back into their LA/OC jobs feel they have much of a choice. To jump to some other part of the country it takes a job offer or friends/family in your new destination who will help you make the transition. The reality is, there aren't that many out-of-state employers who will give out-of-state applicants with average skill-sets and average education levels a second look. It's not just family obligations or the search for a McMansion in the IE that keeps people here locked into paying excessive amounts of time/money for the SoCal lifestyle "premium". The common perception that people who live in this State overrate the benefits and are willing to put up with just about anything to live here cuts both ways. A lot of out-of-state employers have a hard time believing SoCal job applicants are serious about leaving what is perceived elsewhere in the Country --and by so-called reality TV! --- as a carefree, fun-in-the-sun beach lifestyle. This only compounds the problem of finding any viable "exit strategy". Welcome to Paradise.
Last edited by NewsView; 04-19-2016 at 03:45 PM..
Reason: typos
I'm just wondering if there will ever be so much infill within a 25 mile radius of DTLA, that traffic makes it impossible to commute. For example. The 5 Freeway today seems to have reached its limit. No way can someone commute daily from San Diego county into Long Beach like back in the day. Corona seems to be developing so fast, that Riverside and Moreno valley will be "blocked off" by extreme congestion.
Also real estate wise, most homes in the IE advertise as "only one hour from LA and coastal Orange county". That one hour won't be like that forever. Imagine weekend rush hour being the new normal on sundays and everyday. It'll make the drive to the beach a good 2.5 hours each direction. Not only does it affect the inland folks, but i have many friends from Newport and Huntington beach that love to go to Big Bear and Palm Springs, will this will also affect their quality of life/leisure get aways.
Literally every SoCal suburb is constructing some kind of townhome or condominium project. The once outskirts of the high desert and Coachella Valley are now the new masterplanned community boom.
LA county refuses to widen its freeways so the answer is yes. However it will be possible to commute among San Diego, Orange, Riverside, and San Bernardino Counties, due to the widening of the 91, 215, 5, 76 (Oceanside Hwy, might be 78), and new on / off ramps on the 15 thru Murrieta and Temecula.
This is funded by Riverside County's new tax and from Orange County. Light rail doesn't really work over these large distances.
Temecula / Murrieta want more jobs in their area, so that people don't have to commute to San Diego and Orange Counties. That's in their general plans.
LA is not pro-business, pro-industry so they're not attracting big companies within their city limits. Instead, the jobs are moving away to the other counties, and also to Carlsbad, Valencia, and the Victorville / Apple Valley area which is booming.
Victorville and the surrounding area are booming, economically. I can see that this forum is LA-centric and not interested in the inland empire. The high desert has low rents and lots of warehousing and manufacturing moving in and even aerospace. Another place that's booming is western riverside county - temecula, murrieta, elsinore, wildomar. People move to the inland empire to get away from the property managers who use rent maximizing software. Although these PM's have taken over temecula and vicinity, they have - for the most part - not yet invaded Eastern and Northeastern San Bernardino County (Victorville, Joshua Tree, etc.) or Eastern Riverside County.
Study predicts Inland Empire to have highest economic growth in the state
Updated Jun 24, 2014 at 11:44 PM
VICTORVILLE — The United States Conference of Mayors projects the Inland Empire to be one of the fastest-growing, large metropolitan-area economies in the U.S. over the next six years.
An IHS Global Insight economic study revealed estimates that growth in the Riverside/San Bernardino/Ontario economy will be the highest in the state, according to a recent Los Angeles Times article.
Moderator cut: link and snippet only
Last edited by Count David; 04-21-2016 at 09:58 PM..
You should stick around. I really can't wait until you and YoungTraveler get into it. It's going to be bananas.
I'm sure that inland empire landlords would buy the software if it was guaranteed to get them the same rents as West L.A or Santa Monica.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think of all the cities on that list of who commuted out of the county, the highest was 53% but for Rancho Cucamonga it was 37%
Trapped in Paradise
.
