Real example of why $15hr min wage for L.A small businesses is crazy (Los Angeles: under 21, move)

[landsend]

Originally Posted by jm1982

There's a lot of theory going around in this 'debate' ...and talks of "Greedy corporations" that "Make billions"

Here is a real life example of the kind of small mom and pop business in L.A that most likely will be put out of business with a min wage hike.

Fast Food Hamburger Stand: Business For Sale in North Hollywood, Los Angeles County, California, United States on BizBuySell.com
Fast Food Hamburger Stand: Business For Sale in North Hollywood, Los Angeles County, California, United States on BizBuySell.com


The business owner is only netting $45,000 a year...how much will they make when they have to pay their employees $15hr?

Do you think a business owner that has operated their business for 15 years!...and makes $45,000 a year is GREEDY?

If you look at the sales of this business they are $190,000 a year in sales. But the profit is only $45,000 a year. ...and before you say .. "Well the owner must SUCK at running a business!" ... 23.6% profit is in the range for businesses of this type.
Yes that "greedy" business owner is charging a big $6 for their burger...but they only make about $1.38 profit on it after all the expenses!

The owner ..who is probably working at least 40 hours a week is only making
$21.6 per hour....for being the OWNER!

If they are putting in more than 40 hours per week..of course that means they are making less than that per hour.

Now do you guys see why small business owners aren't happy about this min wage hike?..

The business is listed as having 3 employees...so if this business closes those 3 people will be out of work.

It's a tough political issue. I can imagine how difficult it would be to survive on minimum wage (in LA) since even a $15 wage would still be difficult to carve out a life here. Yet on the flip side, many small businesses will be in situations similar to the one you described.


I come from a family that ran both a retail clothing store as well as two fast food restaurants. The clothing store barely scraped enough money to pay the rent despite paying the workers minimum wage. A mall opened nearby which drove us out of business, and we lost everything we put into it and then some. The fast food restaurants did a little better but the narrow margins meant that they were making roughly $60k a year (inflation adjusted) while paying our cashier minimum wage and our cook $11.00 an hour. And this was while keeping the place open 80 hours a week. If we had paid $15 to each employee, we would have had to close the restaurant down.


Overall, I lean against the $15 minimum wage. It will put many small, low margin shops out of business. I read a few LA Times articles that mentioned the hardship of waitresses, bell boys and bartenders living on minimum wage without mentioning that they receive tips as additional compensation (that often doubles or triples their take home pay).


Yes there are business that rake in tons of money that can easily afford to spread the wealth to its minimum wage employees, but the potential pitfalls of the $15 wage on a macro level are too great a risk in my opinion.

[jm1982]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I know there are a lot of people struggling , but a lot of people don't seem to realize that small business owners struggle too.
The big global chains will still survive most likely even if they had to close all of their L.A or California stores.
They have their stores in the other states and in Asia , Europe and elsewhere to sustain them and their investors.

There just seems to be a very anti-business / anti landlord attitude in this city.

Maybe if the L.A Times and the media shared more stories like your story , people might have a better understanding of the whole issue.

I'm sure many small business owners are the same as you, you'd love to pay staff more..but really can't afford it AND remain profitable.

[Rkstar71]

Originally Posted by NOIGUY

So I'll ask again. How much should a 16 year old flipping burgers get paid. I've asked this 3 times now and not gotten a single response.

I'll answer that.
A 16 year old flipping burgers who is being coddled under their parents/guardians roof should not be paid $15/hr along with ADULTS who have ADULT bills to pay such as rent, child care, utilities, car payment, etc.

That $15/hr minimum wage should not apply to minors who work because they don't need it as much as adults living on their own.

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I know there are a lot of people struggling , but a lot of people don't seem to realize that small business owners struggle too.
The big global chains will still survive most likely even if they had to close all of their L.A or California stores.
They have their stores in the other states and in Asia , Europe and elsewhere to sustain them and their investors.

There just seems to be a very anti-business / anti landlord attitude in this city.

Maybe if the L.A Times and the media shared more stories like your story , people might have a better understanding of the whole issue.

I'm sure many small business owners are the same as you, you'd love to pay staff more..but really can't afford it AND remain profitable.

Excellent thread, good job, keep it up. You are providing useful information. You don't seem overly liberal nor conservative either, rather you are doing the research, sharing it, and using common sense.

Its interesting that some of the folks against you are really good at calling you names, attacking your character, denying your facts, and ignoring your arguments. Don't give up, don't let them control, manipulate, or bully you into giving up.

[Mr_Geek]

Originally Posted by Rkstar71

I'll answer that.
A 16 year old flipping burgers who is being coddled under their parents/guardians roof should not be paid $15/hr along with ADULTS who have ADULT bills to pay such as rent, child care, utilities, car payment, etc.

That $15/hr minimum wage should not apply to minors who work because they don't need it as much as adults living on their own.

So should the adult who has savings and no debt and works at McDonalds get paid less than the guy who has a crack addiction, can't pay his rent, and drives a financed BMW?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

Excellent thread, good job, keep it up. You are providing useful information. You don't seem overly liberal nor conservative either, rather you are doing the research, sharing it, and using common sense.

Its interesting that some of the folks against you are really good at calling you names, attacking your character, denying your facts, and ignoring your arguments. Don't give up, don't let them control, manipulate, or bully you into giving up.

You consider opinion and speculation pieces useful information? Useful for feeding uninformed minds that rely on ideologies what they crave to hear, I suppose.

Meanwhile, in seven threads on this topic in the California forums alone, four or five of which were started by jm, data-based information has been repeatedly presented demonstrating the overwhelming fallacies of the OP positions.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I know there are a lot of people struggling , but a lot of people don't seem to realize that small business owners struggle too.
The big global chains will still survive most likely even if they had to close all of their L.A or California stores.
They have their stores in the other states and in Asia , Europe and elsewhere to sustain them and their investors.

There just seems to be a very anti-business / anti landlord attitude in this city.

Maybe if the L.A Times and the media shared more stories like your story , people might have a better understanding of the whole issue.

I'm sure many small business owners are the same as you, you'd love to pay staff more..but really can't afford it AND remain profitable.

Yes. Because random anecdotal stories represent the totality of a large, complex issue.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Mr_Geek

So should the adult who has savings and no debt and works at McDonalds get paid less than the guy who has a crack addiction, can't pay his rent, and drives a financed BMW?

Speaking of mythological creatures?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Rkstar71

I'll answer that.
A 16 year old flipping burgers who is being coddled under their parents/guardians roof should not be paid $15/hr along with ADULTS who have ADULT bills to pay such as rent, child care, utilities, car payment, etc.

That $15/hr minimum wage should not apply to minors who work because they don't need it as much as adults living on their own.

There is merit to consider in this. Some of the foreign countries performing well under much higher minimum wage bases do have lower provisional wage levels for minors. This allows the business owners to employ some percentage of their workers at adjusted rates.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by Mr_Geek

So should the adult who has savings and no debt and works at McDonalds get paid less than the guy who has a crack addiction, can't pay his rent, and drives a financed BMW?

no one is saying that: but there are very few people working at fast food restaurants that are sole support of their families. We all know this. Comparing a full time worker anywhere with a kid just starting out is ridiculous.