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Old 08-30-2016, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
40,909 posts, read 22,051,321 times
Reputation: 31849

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
5150 with teeth. Re-open the institutions.
Did you ever consider the cost of long term care in a mental hospital? This is 4 year old data, and I think it's safe to say that health care costs have gone up since then but it will give you some idea of what your solution would cost.

The average cost to deliver care was highest for Medicare and lowest for the uninsured: schizophrenia treatment, $8,509 for 11.1 days and $5,707 for 7.4 days, respectively; bipolar disorder treatment, $7,593 for 9.4 days and $4,356 for 5.5 days; depression treatment, $6,990 for 8.4 days and $3,616 for 4.4 days; drug use disorder treatment, $4,591 for 5.2 days and $3,422 for 3.7 days; and alcohol use disorder treatment, $5,908 for 6.2 days and $4,147 for 3.8 days.


So yeah, your idea is just wonderful, let's "5150 with teeth". so let's just pick a disorder, how about bi-polar, hospitalization would run around $24,000 a month - or $288,000 a year. That's a crap load of money when you multiply it times several thousand homeless people, most of whom would not meet the criteria for even a temporary 5150 hold.

It's not quite as exciting as rounding up all the homeless and giving them involuntary commitments to mental hospitals but I bet it would be a heck of a lot cheaper for the City or County to buy some SRO's or old motels, rehab them into decent but modest studio apartments offer them to the homeless and require them to pay some rent if they get SSI or a retirement and deliver mental and physical health services right to the residents. It's not even an untried solution, Salt Lake City has been doing just that for a decade and they've been able to get 94% of their homeless off the streets.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:16 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 10,057,370 times
Reputation: 7979
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Do some research, there are plenty of resources available that illustrate that a large majority of homeless people last resided in the same city they are currently homeless in.
None are reliable as all are biased that I have seen thusfar and they rely on self-reporting.
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Old 08-30-2016, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
40,909 posts, read 22,051,321 times
Reputation: 31849
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
None are reliable as all are biased that I have seen thusfar and they rely on self-reporting.
Well yeah, how else would you find out where someone came from other than asking them? But unreliable because of that, why? Do you think they get paid to lie or something?
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:00 AM
 
4,959 posts, read 4,091,632 times
Reputation: 4181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert137 View Post
What do these people have to do to get arrested? Assault or kill someone? How about removing all their clothing in public, would that get them arrested?
Why are you so fixated on them getting arrested? How does this solve the problem? You can't hold them indefinitely for vagrancy (because the majority of them are, in fact, not violent - just annoying) and some of them, quite frankly, would probably welcome it because it guarantees them three squares and a roof. Assuming they are sane, of course.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
45,534 posts, read 56,834,788 times
Reputation: 82181
I have not read all the posts, but my answer is the same, regardless of where in the country you live.

There was not a homeless problem until some geniuses in Washington decided that institutionalizing the mentally ill was against their civil rights.

There are already programs in place for these people, but they cannot or will not conform to rules, so they wind up on the street.

Many families would put their homeless relatives into facilities where they would be cared for, but a person must do it himself. Of course, this would be very expensive. Here in Savannah, an organization is building a village of tiny houses for homeless veterans. It's only a drop in the bucket, but at least it's something.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Altadena, CA
1,596 posts, read 1,904,547 times
Reputation: 2998
Obviously, it's a very difficult job to manage SoCal's homeless situation with compassion. You have to give tough love. Face it, these are our fellow human beings - many down on their luck hopefully for a short spell, while others are professional homeless (love the lifestyle because of drugs/alcohol and no adult responsibilities), and then there are the mentally ill.

These are the three segments of homeless people that need to be managed differently.

Accute homeless people: assess their situation, provide short term assistance that will help them find a job and secure housing.

Chronic homeless people: transfer them to remote areas where they can continue being chronic homeless and not bother the good citizens in densely populated, high COL areas. Let's face it, the chronic homeless enjoy being homeless and they enjoy the free benefits of bugging tax paying citizens for money and handouts. They are not motivated to improve their existence. They should not be permitted to be an eye sore to the rest of a busy and productive society while laying under the sun on a beach looking filthy.

Mentally ill homeless: they need help. They cannot provide for themselves and need to be treated in a facility, again, in remote areas where their needs can be addressed and they pose no harm or danger to themselves or the rest of society in a densely populated area.

Such a system needs to be rolled out over time, and again, by employing compassion and respect towards these people, but with a tough love type of stance.

This is just something off the top of my head, but the key theme is treating the chronic and mentally ill homeless in remote areas so that they do not disrupt the quality of life of the productive members of society. It makes no sense to have so many homeless people clogging up streets and neighborhoods in densely populated areas where they do NOT give back to society in any way shape or form. Help them, but help them in parts of the county that could better manage homeless people in an effort to rehabilitate them back into a productive society. This may seem cold, but, I'm trying to be compassionate towards the homeless, while also being considerate of all the rest of us in society that has to put up with this chronic problem of dealing with the homeless, which many of them enjoy the 'freedoms' of being homeless.
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Old 08-31-2016, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
40,909 posts, read 22,051,321 times
Reputation: 31849
Quote:
Originally Posted by gentlearts View Post
I have not read all the posts, but my answer is the same, regardless of where in the country you live. There was not a homeless problem until some geniuses in Washington decided that institutionalizing the mentally ill was against their civil rights. There are already programs in place for these people, but they cannot or will not conform to rules, so they wind up on the street. Many families would put their homeless relatives into facilities where they would be cared for, but a person must do it himself. Of course, this would be very expensive. Here in Savannah, an organization is building a village of tiny houses for homeless veterans. It's only a drop in the bucket, but at least it's something.
Don't you think there should be some criteria that is required to confine a person against their will? At least in criminal law we require a conviction. According to studies only about 20-25% of the homeless are mentally ill so unless you change the definition of mental illness and claim that being homeless is prima facie evidence of mental illness how would institutionalizing them solve the problem?

When mental hospitals were closed and there was no alternative offered for the mentally ill, that certainly exacerbated the problem, but there were other things happening at the same time, there were fewer jobs for the unskilled or semi-skilled, landlords began doing background checks and started turning down more and more people who otherwise would have been able to rent, i.e. felons. In urban areas SRO's and low rent apartments were razed or turned into high rent units leaving thousands of people with no where to go. I have worked with the poor for years and I am the first to admit that some are so obnoxious, or so disturbed that they make your skin crawl, but there are also people who are just like us, and they are only homeless because they just plain ran out out of options and money.

We need programs like the one you mentioned in Savannah all over the US, and not just for homeless veterans.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
40,909 posts, read 22,051,321 times
Reputation: 31849
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
Accute homeless people: assess their situation, provide short term assistance that will help them find a job and secure housing.
short term assistance and then what? They are on the streets now, when your short term assistance ends they will return to the streets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
Chronic homeless people: transfer them to remote areas where they can continue being chronic homeless and not bother the good citizens in densely populated, high COL areas. Let's face it, the chronic homeless enjoy being homeless and they enjoy the free benefits of bugging tax paying citizens for money and handouts. They are not motivated to improve their existence. They should not be permitted to be an eye sore to the rest of a busy and productive society while laying under the sun on a beach looking filthy.
One word: unconstitutional
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
Mentally ill homeless: they need help. They cannot provide for themselves and need to be treated in a facility, again, in remote areas where their needs can be addressed and they pose no harm or danger to themselves or the rest of society in a densely populated area.
Do some research on the costs of confining someone to a mental hospital, then double it when you have to pay staff a premium to live in some hell hole in the desert.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MItoBH View Post
This is just something off the top of my head
I can tell...
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,531 posts, read 8,318,334 times
Reputation: 7551
How difficult would it be to buy a few thousand acres of desert land east of LA and put up Concertina Wire around a compound that has individual shelters with a community shower, restrooms and kitchen? The residents could make their own shelters out of Straw, concrete or whatever. Of course that would require the ability to get along with others and WORK. However the main gate would not be locked and anyone could leave at any time. A shuttle bus could transport homeless FROM LA but no return service.
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:01 AM
 
Location: So. Calif
1,056 posts, read 815,833 times
Reputation: 2682
Homeless situation is very complex... You have drug addicts, Alcoholics, people who have lost jobs, the Mentally Ill.

The drug addicts (especially on meth) usually are the ones committing the crimes - burglaries etc. Sweep them up-throw them into rehab? Same with alcoholics....Give the people who have lost their jobs/homes and put them into housing and help them find work. The mentally ill assess them and see what they are dealing with such as Schizophrenia or just depression.

Sadly we know the people suffering from Schizophrenia will not take their meds and I believe these folks need to be under 24/7 care. They need to be in a facility. The severe mentally ill, the ones with outbursts need to go into a facility as well. You cannot put these people out on their own as they cannot function.

Politicians just do not get it...They think outpatient clinics will do the trick or housing yet many will not stay put and will simply go back out into the streets. Again, it is VERY complex.

We here in Wiseburn, Del Aire, HollyGlen are experiencing a lot of homeless people. There seems to be camps near the exits of the freeways and this is of course where they live. They have bikes and often come into our neighborhoods and steal from us. If anything in your frontyard is not chained - they will take it. They have been known to creep into your backyards as well. It's just unsafe. The drug addicts will break into the homes...it's a problem!
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