Gov. Brown: Courts *Must* Let California Slash its Public-Sector Pensions (San Jose: pros and cons, authority)

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I never worked as a prison guard, in fact I have never held a job with the state, so I have absolutely no clue if you hallucinated that or if you just make stuff up.

LOL. Sounds as if people are apparently getting desperate to get their point across.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I never worked as a prison guard, in fact I have never held a job with the state, so I have absolutely no clue if you hallucinated that or if you just make stuff up.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

LOL. Sounds as if people are apparently getting desperate to get their point across.

Why am I remembering “What’s My Line?” shows from the 1950’s ...?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Why am I remembering “What’s My Line?” shows from the 1950’s ...?

no kidding

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Everything I stated is verifiable with online resources, I fact checked them before I posted. But in some discussions I just don't bother posting links because I know by seeing who is posting in the thread that my time in posting sources is just a waste because "certain people" will always claim that the source is not recent enough, good enough or unbiased enough so why should I bother? I will continue to source my posts in threads where I think we can engage in a real discussion. But if you really wanted to know if I was right, or if you just want to prove me wrong you would research this yourself, dontcha think?
Oh looky here, you worked as a prison guard 2sleepy, what's your opinion on this, well deserved?
I never worked as a prison guard, in fact I have never held a job with the state, so I have absolutely no clue if you hallucinated that or if you just make stuff up.

Ok that's a cool story but what about your point? You say privatization doesn't work as evidenced by San Jose. If only SJ privatized and not every other surrounding area, they lost staff and couldn't hire anyone, one can surmise that those potential hires went to the higher paying jobs instead. They went to the fixed market as it is in their favor, so it is not a free market.

Oh, I'm pretty sure you've stated more than once that you worked in law enforcement. "And not as a janitor" to paraphrase you.

Originally Posted by CA4Now

LOL. Sounds as if people are apparently getting desperate to get their point across.

You dun got me gud!

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

no kidding

Originally Posted by max210

Oh, I'm pretty sure you've stated more than once that you worked in law enforcement. "And not as a janitor" to paraphrase you.



You dun got me gud!

Ok. My turn. I’m going to guess motor-pool mechanic. Or department barber ... barbers hear a lot from their customers. So do mechanics ...

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by max210

Ok that's a cool story but what about your point? You say privatization doesn't work as evidenced by San Jose. If only SJ privatized and not every other surrounding area, they lost staff and couldn't hire anyone, one can surmise that those potential hires went to the higher paying jobs instead. They went to the fixed market as it is in their favor, so it is not a free market.

I think you got a little lost in the thread, I never said what you think I did.

CaliR said that without unions:

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

But it will be the MARKET deciding the value of those packages, NOT public unions negotiating on the behalf of everyone.

to which I replied:

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

That's true and I agree, look at how the market spoke after San Jose cut salaries by 10-18% in 2010 and then went after current employee's pensions in 2012. They lost 600 out of 1400 officers.

In other words, you can't cut wages and benefits and expect employees to stick around when they are being offered better pay and benefits by other employers. Would it be a fixed market if Tesoro Oil decided to cut wages by 25% but neither Shell or Chevron did? Do you think that Tesoro employees would hang around if they were offered jobs with better pay and benefits? If there were job openings at all three refineries would you call it a fixed market because no one applied for work at the employer who paid the lowest wages?

Regarding what I did in law enforcement, so far you have claimed that I was a dispatcher and a prison guard, you were wrong on both counts but if you want to keep guessing by all means, knock yourself out

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I think you got a little lost in the thread, I never said what you think I did.

CaliR said that without unions:



to which I replied:



In other words, you can't cut wages and benefits and expect employees to stick around when they are being offered better pay and benefits by other employers. Would it be a fixed market if Tesoro Oil decided to cut wages by 25% but neither Shell or Chevron did? Do you think that Tesoro employees would hang around if they were offered jobs with better pay and benefits? If there were job openings at all three refineries would you call it a fixed market because no one applied for work at the employer who paid the lowest wages?

Regarding what I did in law enforcement, so far you have claimed that I was a dispatcher and a prison guard, you were wrong on both counts but if you want to keep guessing by all means, knock yourself out

Point is gov pay and benefits does not match private, free market rates, they're manipulated, artificially inflated by the government to their benefit for your vote. Your analogy doesn't represent what we were saying.

I couldn't care less if what you specifically did for law enforcement. You have a vested interest to not cut pensions for government employees at the detriment to every other person living in CA. Who cares about tax hikes as long as your pension is getting funded.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by max210

I couldn't care less if what you specifically did for law enforcement.

Wow, max....up too late? That was rude.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

In other words, you can't cut wages and benefits and expect employees to stick around when they are being offered better pay and benefits by other employers.

Uh yes you can. Without the parasitic public unions, there will be a "market adjustment" . Here's a little bit of reading of how that works for your own education.

AmosWEB is Economics: Encyclonomic WEB*pedia

The reason your previous example failed to explain how wages could drop (or not) is because it happened within the sphere of a market where public unions actually had power.

That's no longer the case due to the great work of the SCOTUS.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Uh yes you can. Without the parasitic public unions, there will be a "market adjustment" . Here's a little bit of reading of how that works for your own education.
AmosWEB is Economics: Encyclonomic WEB*pedia
The reason your previous example failed to explain how wages could drop (or not) is because it happened within the sphere of a market where public unions actually had power.
That's no longer the case due to the great work of the SCOTUS.

SCOTUS did not get rid of unions, I think many unions will give up exclusive bargaining rights and become "members only" organizations which do not have to represent free-riders, it's perfectly legal and would go a long way toward encouraging people to pay union dues.

Labor unions also have the ability to form members-only unions which aren’t obligated to represent nonmembers. The CEI report adds that very little change to state labor relations law is necessary. Union members would continue to work under a collective bargaining agreement and related state laws would remain unchanged. “A policy of members-only unions would resolve the above issues,” the report states. “Under such a policy, a union would only represent, negotiate on behalf of, and collect dues from members of the labor organization. Non-members can exercise their newfound freedom to negotiate a contract with the public employer tailored to their needs.”

How Members-Only Unions Could Solve the Free-Rider Problem

I'm not going to discuss market adjustment here because that would only become relevant if all LE and firefighting agencies were privatized and that will not happen, not now and not in the foreseeable future, so if a few do privatize and try to significantly cut wages and benefits they will experience exactly what San Jose PD did.