The Los Angeles Homeless Containment Thread (Nice: snake, elderly, jail)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Housing the homeless is cheaper than incarcerating them or leaving them on the streets:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1694.html (click "read online' for the full report)

Saaaay ... wait a minute here. Are you suggesting we turn to common sense in considering solutions? ... instead of retribution-type actions? Giving someone a dollar to save me $10 doesn’t address my anger!

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Housing the homeless is cheaper than incarcerating them or leaving them on the streets:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1694.html (click "read online' for the full report)

Housing and incarceration are two different issues . The homeless population has a big criminal element .
Not everyone is a good person unfortunately and some people just lack a conscience and are fine living a life of crime .
If providing public housing for people lowered crime then “the projects” would be known as a low crime place rather than an area to be avoided .

The mentally ill and disabled should be housed and supervised and the criminals need to be incarcerated.
people from the westside to koreatown to South L.A to the Valley are waking up and realizing that the current situation is not acceptable and results in a degraded /low quality of life .

These things don’t fly in other parts of the country .

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Housing and incarceration are two different issues . The homeless population has a big criminal element .
Not everyone is a good person unfortunately and some people just lack a conscience and are fine living a life of crime .
If providing public housing for people lowered crime then “the projects” would be known as a low crime place rather than an area to be avoided .

The mentally ill and disabled should be housed and supervised and the criminals need to be incarcerated.
people from the westside to koreatown to South L.A to the Valley are waking up and realizing that the current situation is not acceptable and results in a degraded /low quality of life .

These things don’t fly in other parts of the country .

Give us some actual stats on homeless criminal behaviors being tolerated at any rate equal or higher than in the general population, jm. Not littering and trespassing, jm. Real felonies. Or do you suggest extended incarcerations for those misdemeanors (which sentencing is not legal)?

Don’t want an ad nauseum list of your favorite anecdotal, sophistically specious news stories about crimes in the homeless sector. Looking for some real verification that felony crime by the homeless has not been treated as equally actionable as it is for the rest of society.

Thanks.

[Social Democrat]

I'm not happy about the homeless situation but no how, no way is forcibly relocating the homeless to assuage the anger of many of the posters in this thread the cure.
That would be iniquitous and what a steep slippery slope it would create to take such an action.
Several advocate changing the constitution to allow forced relocation of the homeless. Of course, I doubt constitutionalizing (is that even a word?) the relocation of homeless would be only the only change. The recent past provides examples of "relocation" due to religion and race; the latter occurred here during WW II.
Those that advocate such a change feel like it would never happen to them because they are smugly confident it wouldn't happen to "their kind" - provide your own definition of that term.
In the kind of dystopian society your new constitution would create, no one would be immune to the ruling cliques whims.
Your anger would be better directed to feckless politicians that talk about the issue but don't act in a meaningful way to address it. You could also aim it at the abysmal lack of mental health services for those in dire need of it. Of course don't forget developers that buy up affordable apartments, demolish them and build apartments out of range for those that were displaced.
There's also the economy that put some people on the street with stagnating salaries that don't pay the rent. Yeah, yeah, I know they can move, work more jobs, get a better education etc. but here we are in the right now.
No, I'm not inviting a stranger to live in my home, I contribute in my way to the issue. I'm frustrated with the glacial pace the necessary resources needed to deal with homeless crisis are being implemented. I'm not wasting my time and energy wishing for a cure that is morally unconscionable and absolutely futile.
Push for the establishment of shelters and trained personnel to oversee them to get homeless off the street, hate will not cure the problem.
I'm going to get the popcorn now....

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Housing the homeless is cheaper than incarcerating them or leaving them on the streets:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1694.html (click "read online' for the full report)

Then house them with your own funds as you see fit.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Then house them with your own funds as you see fit.

Do you want them off the streets? ... or not? They’re not going anywhere by way of your suggestion that individuals pay for it as individuals. You can be righteous and get nowhere ... or you can look at what programs work and what doesn’t ... and get on board. Or not ... and keep stepping in the poop.

No one’s sugar-coating the situation. A few of us are, while at least in some degree agreeing with your revulsion, merely pointing out how the problems can best, legally, and most affordably be dealt with.

Most posting here are doing little more than a version of standing on a street corner shouting at cars day in and day out ... you know, like some crazy homeless people do?

[LuvSouthOC]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Housing the homeless is cheaper than incarcerating them or leaving them on the streets:
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR1694.html (click "read online' for the full report)

Assuming arguendo that it is true that it is indeed cheaper to provide housing to the homeless than it is to keep them on the street, there is societal damage that will be done by helping them. Note that I have serious questions with the reasoning and numbers you provide, but even if true, it does not address the problem that regressives will cause vis- à-vis people not having to be accountable for poor decisions. One paycheck, a bad move or a bad decision: all can lead to homelessness. Providing those not deserving of housing irrespective of their own irresponsibility creates a huge moral hazard isofar as bad behavior is concerned and will indeed lead to far more homelessness as well as still more dependency on the government to solve all problems.


Opinion: Berkeley homeless policy and the*moral hazard problem — Berkeleyside

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Then house them with your own funds as you see fit.

Nah..I like my idea better, you want to put them all in jail then let the sheriff's department house a few of them in your backyard

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

Assuming arguendo that it is true that it is indeed cheaper to provide housing to the homeless than it is to keep them on the street, there is societal damage that will be done by helping them. Note that I have serious questions with the reasoning and numbers you provide, but even if true, it does not address the issue the problem that regressives will cause vis- à-vis people not having to be accountable for poor decisions. One paycheck, a bad move or a bad decision: all can lead to homelessness. Providing those not deserving of housing irrespective of their own irresponsibility creates a huge moral hazard isofar as bad behavior is concerned and will indeed lead to far more homelessness as well as still more dependency on the government to solve all problems.


Opinion: Berkeley homeless policy and the*moral hazard problem — Berkeleyside

Don't argue with me about the costs, read the study I provided, it's very well sourced. This is not an issue that can be resolved by telling the homeless to exercise better judgment or be more responsible - they are homeless...that makes it a little tough for them to start funding a 401k or saving up for a nice apartment.

We don't reward bad behavior by providing shelter to the homeless, we prevent a lot of the societal damage that comes with people living in alleys and on our sidewalks when we provide them with shelter and necessary services.

As far as that profoundly stupid article you linked. Charities in Milwaukee does not fund the services that the homeless receive, it is funded out of their City and County and State budgets just like every other city does. Milwaukee contracts with charities to manage many of their homeless programs, just like LA, San Francisco, San Diego, Denver, Las Vegas and nearly every other city does.

Milwaukee's homeless caught in middle of budget battle
https://shepherdexpress.com/news/fea...ss/#/questions
https://doa.wi.gov/Pages/LocalGovtsG...GMainPage.aspx

[LuvSouthOC]

So your response to the moral hazard problem is hysterics and a dismissal of the issue out-of-hand: arguing that the article I sent was "profoundly stupid". No, it is hardly stupid. It speaks, at least in part, to the issue of moral hazard. You simply have no response because I touched a nerve.