The Los Angeles Homeless Containment Thread (San Diego, San Francisco: trespassing, mounted, spray)

[Finper]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

“Home court advantage?” Since when is being an American:
schizophrenic or
cancer patient or
domestically abused partner
... et al
an “advantage” over an able-bodied immigrant?

That said, what if we, just for the sake of simplicity in debate, agree that all the American homeless are quite defective in their intellect, character, mental health, addictive weaknesses, criminality ... and so forth ... and proceed from there to point out that these immigrants are superior workers and of high character and motivation.

Now then, the question of what to do with streets full of defective Americans remains exactly the same ... whether compared to awesome immigrants or not.

In other words, what difference does it make to clearing the streets if immigrants are superior?

What a completely silly tangential argument to make. The homeless are a mess and burden on the streets whatever the case. Now, how will you propose to legally, constitutionally, practically, and affordably get these defectives off the streets?

Back to your “electric cattle prods” proposal, Exitus?

If they're a mess how are they off the streets in 2 months like you endlessly repeat????

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

“Home court advantage?” Since when is being an American:
schizophrenic or
cancer patient or
domestically abused partner
... et al
an “advantage” over an able-bodied immigrant?

That said, what if we, just for the sake of simplicity in debate, agree that all the American homeless are quite defective in their intellect, character, mental health, addictive weaknesses, criminality ... and so forth ... and proceed from there to point out that these immigrants are superior workers and of high character and motivation.

Now then, the question of what to do with streets full of defective Americans remains exactly the same ... whether compared to awesome immigrants or not.

In other words, what difference does it make to clearing the streets if immigrants are superior?

What a completely silly tangential argument to make. The homeless are a mess and burden on the streets whatever the case. Now, how will you propose to legally, constitutionally, practically, and affordably get these defectives off the streets?

Back to your “electric cattle prods” proposal, Exitus?

You're jumping into the middle of an ongoing discussion, and once again you've missed my point, which is that there are a great deal of people on the streets not because of a lack of housing.

BTW, are you not fed up with these shanty towns popping up all over L.A.? Where did you say you live? Oh, I remember now -- you live in a gated community like 500 miles away from L.A. so you have no idea how frustrated those of us who actually live here have become.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are you talking about illegal immigrants? Most have family or friends in the US and stay with them, I thought most people knew that. Or..they find an out of the way farm or ranchero where they are welcomed. In Northern California a rancher with 37 acres decided to make some extra money and allowed illegals to live there in trailers, broke down cars or even in tents. Someone who lives near there said there were at least 100 immigrant families living there. I heard the county was trying to do something about it but when I drove by about a month ago it still looked like little Tijuana. The least likely place an illegal immigrant will sleep would be on the streets of a major city, they know how to fly under the radar and they are real good at it.

I have no problem with people living in appropriate places. What I have a problem with are people living on sidewalks, in alcoves, etc., and engaging in creepy behavior as discussed previously.

[Exitus Acta Probat]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Long Beach residents are fed up with the criminal homeless in their area and are now doing
“Patrols “ to take back their neighborhood.

Had a feeling that something like this would happen due to the lax response from local officials.

Those out of the area that don’t live in L.A county or SoCal might not realize that there has been a rising criminal element among the homeless.

—-

dawn Friday through the Belmont Shore neighborhood, protesting what participants called a “criminal element” in the oceanfront community’s growing homeless encampments.

But Barry Vince, who spearheaded the event, said that although he has “great compassion” for homeless people, the police need help reining in a criminal fringe that steals kids’ bikes, breaks into homes and leaves syringes and needles in the streets.
“What changed for me is the safety of our homes and our families is now in question,” said Vince, a lifelong Belmont Shore resident and owner of a high-tech staffing company. “We want to let them know we’re here, we’re compassionate, but we’re also angry.”

Long Beach citizen patrols face off with counter-protesters over growing homeless encampments - Los Angeles Times

Heard their spokesperson on John & Ken today. Good for them!

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Are you talking about illegal immigrants? Most have family or friends in the US and stay with them, I thought most people knew that.

They should. But it's easier to compare immigrants (who move here because family members can help them obtain work) to people who live here and have lost their jobs and whose families have turned them away.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Finper

If they're a mess how are they off the streets in 2 months like you endlessly repeat????

First off, you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I didn’t say “they’re [all] a mess.” I said, ‘for the sake of simplifying this tangent to the discussion’, let’s say they are.

The facts are: “they” aren’t all a mess in the sense they are being stereotyped to be.

Nor have I said “they are off the streets in 2 months”. What I have reported is, 75% of persons experiencing homelessness are homeless for less than a year - by definition ... because “chronic homeless”, defined as persons homeless for more than 12 months”, are approximately 25% of the total. And the majority of persons in the 75% category of “temporary / transitional homeless” resolve that situation within about 2 months.

Now, all that clarified for you, the point of my contribution was to make clear that the reasons the chronic can’t find housing while Exitus’ immigrants can - makes no difference. If American chronic homeless are worthless, sick, incompetent, lazy, criminal, addicted bums ... they are still on the streets ... in everyone’s way causing disruption and expenses. Right? And if the lowly immigrants are clever and motivated and hard working - it doesn’t change the situation for the worthless American failures, does it?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

You're jumping into the middle of an ongoing discussion, and once again you've missed my point, which is that there are a great deal of people on the streets not because of a lack of housing.

Um no. I have been continuously involved in the discussions on this thread for months - quite to your and some other posters’ frustration.

What you postulate is silly. Those on the streets are on the streets because they can’t solve their various dilemmas ... which very much includes housing affordable for them.

The immigrants, as Sleepy points out, have family and friends and network to bunk in with. They have the will and energy and motivation and general wherewithall to serve each others’ needs. They also are generally in at least fair physical and mental health, both, and pretty sober. Mostly, they are also quite law abiding as they don’t want to get in trouble and booted back across the border - so they fly under the radar with great intent.

[arleigh]

The problem with creating housing for the homeless is that it attracts more of them than you had to begin with . Same problem with welfare and other public funded abuses .
People of the world , you are just going to have to face the fact these people are here to stay . Just keep in mind this could be you some day.
These are people that have struggled I this world and have compromised their existence to live this way, or die.

I had been homeless ,no drugs no booze no reason but the fact jobs were too hard to find that could make ends meet.

Minimum wage doesn't go very far ,home car insurance utilities food clothes etc...
Even skilled labor does not pay very well to make all the expenses .
Older folk get preferred because young people are too incompetent to flip burgers. not when the government is handing them money to do nothing . Collage is a joke.
My guess is your going to see a lot more homelessness in the future, , Government has farmed out our industry to the world that hates us (NAFTA) and California is driving industry OUT.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Exitus Acta Probat

BTW, are you not fed up with these shanty towns popping up all over L.A.? Where did you say you live? Oh, I remember now -- you live in a gated community like 500 miles away from L.A. so you have no idea how frustrated those of us who actually live here have become.

Well, I’ve been assisting veteran’s with eviction and homeless issues, as well as substance abuse, PTSD, and suicidal issues, and benefits acquisition for something like 25 years ... so I’ve been kinda fed up with all these things for a very long time - everywhere they exist. Yeah. So?

And last time I got out my maps and dividers, sextant, star charts, and calculator ... San Diego wasn’t yet 500 miles from LA. No.

“Gated community”? Hmmm. I guess you refer to me living at DoD marinas, on base? For a bit over the past 3 years, yep. Prior to that, since the mid-late 70’s, nope ... civilian spaces just like the rest of y’all. Most career military, and pretty much all reserves (where I did more than half my career) all live off-base, bub. If you’d served you’d know that, but I guess most of you folks don’t realize.

So, my time in San Francisco? Lived at marinas in city neighborhoods loaded with homeless.

My time in San Diego now? I’m off base every day. I walk and bicycle everywhere. Almost never drive. And the bases are in the Point Loma / airport / Arena districts ... which are - wait for it - one of San Diego’s homeless central districts. Rubbing shoulders with “them” everyday. As I’ve said before: never a problem. But do I feel frustration over the situation? Sure. Who wouldn’t - regardless of point of view?



Now then, question for you ... I have asked a dozen times before and never gotten an answer:

What is the difference between LA’s homeless and homeless in other cities such as San Francisco or San Diego, that would preclude a person long knowledgable in the issues from grasping LA’s homelessness?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC

I will compile a list for you. In the meantime, showing you that homeless organizations are pushing for the universal right to housing is fact, not conspiracy. I’ve demonstrated as much.

Well? I’m still interested. So waiting. But reminding you my question isn’t whether any “organizations” are lobbying for “universal right to housing” ... but in what way do you think that threatens you beyond what it takes to get these chronics off the streets, regardless of any “rights”.

You DO want them off the streets, right? So, if not by “rights” to housing, then how other? I don’t care if they are granted “rights” to housing.

Also: you DO grasp that a variety of “rights” have been attached to our constitution long after it was written, right? So your comment about “sticking to the constitution” might require its own amendment, eh?