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Old 06-04-2018, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,749 posts, read 15,506,086 times
Reputation: 24324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
If enough left it would drive up salaries for those staying as there would not be enough workers and rent would not be a problem, plus reducing the number of illegals taking low paying jobs, driving salaries down for everyone else that wants such a job. Supply and demand not the Gov't stepping in and hurting both sides.
Illegals aren't pushing wages down for anyone, they usually work for the same wage as everyone else in the industry, but employers love them because they don't complain, report accidents and or ask for pay raises. Don't believe me? Do some research into illegals working in meat and poultry processing.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...-chicken-plant

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/16/54365...y-got-deported
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,749 posts, read 15,506,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
That’s not true . There are plenty of people that are willing to commute far . Housing is expensive but people still line up for min wage jobs . Where I used to work there were even people in the IT department commuting from Antelope Valley . There were facilities and janitorial staff commuting from Fontana to the Westside of L.A
Because they could own homes there instead of renting a small studio or something closer to work .

There are plenty of people including illegal immigrants that will stack up 4 people to a 1 bedroom apartment for example . Might be better than the village they came from .

People aren’t having trouble finding employees for lower end jobs , they are having more trouble at the higher end because those with professional careers and a middle class lifestyle expect more. They want to be able to live in a decent area and usually a single family home especially if they have kids.

There already is rent control in L.A but sometimes people decide to get out of the rental business and develop property . Which they should have every right to do .
There is not enough money or space to provide housing subsidies for every single person that wants to live in la but can’t afford market rents .

Just giving you perspective and reality since I live in L.A things might be a bit diffferent up north.
Good jm, then there is absolutely no problem in LA, you will get your oil changed by a guy who drives 140 miles a day to make minimum wage. I am so happy that is working out so well.
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Old 06-04-2018, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,306 posts, read 16,490,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
If enough left it would drive up salaries for those staying as there would not be enough workers and rent would not be a problem, plus reducing the number of illegals taking low paying jobs, driving salaries down for everyone else that wants such a job. Supply and demand not the Gov't stepping in and hurting both sides.
Yeah exactly . The $15 hr wage that was arbitrary passed by career politicians that have never run a business will hurt the businesses and employees. Jerry Brown was against the $15 min wage until the unions that own him made him change his tune.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,306 posts, read 16,490,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Good jm, then there is absolutely no problem in LA, you will get your oil changed by a guy who drives 140 miles a day to make minimum wage. I am so happy that is working out so well.
Well last place I went for an oil change it was a tiny shop , local place ,mechanic owns the shop . I didn’t ask him where he lives .
Many many people live with family at no or low rent in L.A

typical example , family bought their home when prices were $150,000 or less in the valley now the same house might be $600,000 . Again this is in the “cheaper “ parts of la .

Echo Park that used to be known as a gang land , ever see the movie La Vida Loca ?

Homes there are over $800,000 there now on average . Many long time Hispanic homeowners sitting on several hundred thousand of equity .
So Hispanics aren’t all dead broke like the left and media points out . Many in L.A are sitting on a lot of equity .

Many living in nicer suburban areas too not just in Boyle Heights and East L.A .
I don’t hear many of those stories in the left leaning L.A Times .

Or maybe they are in rent control . Sometimes a building gets redeveloped once in a while but probably 1 out of 100 or less . The tenants get big payouts when this happens $7000-20,000 depending on age etc .

What other place can you get that kind of payday as a tenant ?

Again just sharing reality based on my local knowledge and experience in this city called Los Angeles , living in multiple parts of the city .
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:00 AM
 
312 posts, read 207,115 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
The problem with your argument is that LA can't afford to lose large numbers of lower wage workers, who will be left to clean your streets, teach your kids, cut your hair or stock the shelves in grocery stores? People are not going to commute from the Antelope Valley or Arizona to cater to your needs.

That is one of the prices that society has to pay for the wonderful free market. There are two options, the government provides housing subsidies or rent control is imposed, but at this point I'm thinking rent control is probably too little too late.
this is not how economics work
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,306 posts, read 16,490,458 times
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Originally Posted by Commonproject View Post
this is not how economics work
Must be. “New math “ ..

The price of living in a free market is rent control .. where rents aren’t based on the free market ..
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,749 posts, read 15,506,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commonproject View Post
this is not how economics work
Of course it is, when rent increases at 10% a year and wages increase at most 2% a year there will be an ever increasing number of people who can't afford to remain in that area. Their options are to either become homeless or to leave the area. If too many leave the area then service and food industries will not be able to fill jobs, at least not at a rate that will allow them to remain profitable. For businesses to profit there can only be a nominal wage premium in high cost of living areas which leaves the lower wage worker with far less income than they would in other areas.

That leaves you with a few options. I oppose rent control because many people who could afford a more expensive apartment remain in the rent controlled property for decades which locks lower income tenants out of the opportunity to rent those properties. It might help to restrict AirBnB which is taking a lot of rentals off the market for long term renters and Cities should relax building codes to increase the amount of available housing. And maybe for a shorter term solution we could subsidize housing for lower income workers who are employed in the area. Denver is already subsidizing rents for lower income workers.

Or we could just get used to not having babysitters, janitors, teachers, retail sales and restaurant personnel.

Here's an excellent analysis of the situation, let me know what you think about it. http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/sho...oagjan2015.pdf
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,749 posts, read 15,506,086 times
Reputation: 24324
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Well last place I went for an oil change it was a tiny shop , local place ,mechanic owns the shop . I didn’t ask him where he lives .
Many many people live with family at no or low rent in L.A

typical example , family bought their home when prices were $150,000 or less in the valley now the same house might be $600,000 . Again this is in the “cheaper “ parts of la .

Echo Park that used to be known as a gang land , ever see the movie La Vida Loca ?

Homes there are over $800,000 there now on average . Many long time Hispanic homeowners sitting on several hundred thousand of equity .
So Hispanics aren’t all dead broke like the left and media points out . Many in L.A are sitting on a lot of equity .

Many living in nicer suburban areas too not just in Boyle Heights and East L.A .
I don’t hear many of those stories in the left leaning L.A Times .

Or maybe they are in rent control . Sometimes a building gets redeveloped once in a while but probably 1 out of 100 or less . The tenants get big payouts when this happens $7000-20,000 depending on age etc .

What other place can you get that kind of payday as a tenant ?

Again just sharing reality based on my local knowledge and experience in this city called Los Angeles , living in multiple parts of the city .
But we can't continue to rely upon long term homeowners who have low mortgages to fill these jobs, that only works for so long. About this $7,000 to $20,000 payday for a tenant? What good does that do them if they are going to stay in the area and they need to rent a different place? If you are under rent control and are paying $1,000 a month and your new apartment costs $3,000 a month a $7,000 payout would cover the difference in rent for a little over 3 months, I'm not sure about you but I wouldn't consider that to be a 'big payout'
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,306 posts, read 16,490,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
But we can't continue to rely upon long term homeowners who have low mortgages to fill these jobs, that only works for so long. About this $7,000 to $20,000 payday for a tenant? What good does that do them if they are going to stay in the area and they need to rent a different place? If you are under rent control and are paying $1,000 a month and your new apartment costs $3,000 a month a $7,000 payout would cover the difference in rent for a little over 3 months, I'm not sure about you but I wouldn't consider that to be a 'big payout'

What good does a $7,000 -20,000 pay day do them? Really?


So what's the point of having the payout at all then?
Or maybe let's make the payout $100,000 ?


Also they still get the payout even if they just moved in a year ago , so many won't be a situation like they pay $1,000 but market rent is $3,000.

Maybe more like they pay $900 and market is $1500 or something ..its going to vary of course depending on how long they lived there ..what area.



Should the landlord be obligated to subsidize them forever? The landlord has no moral or legal obligation to do that.



Some might move in with family, some might use it as a downpayment on their own property out of state in a city that's a lot more affordable for low wage workers , which would be the smartest thing to do.



I agree with you on rent control though, it's a bad policy. The cities with the strongest rent control have the highest market rents.
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Old 06-04-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,749 posts, read 15,506,086 times
Reputation: 24324
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
What good does a $7,000 -20,000 pay day do them? Really?
So what's the point of having the payout at all then?
Or maybe let's make the payout $100,000 ?
Should the landlord be obligated to subsidize them forever? The landlord has no moral or legal right to do that.
Some might move in with family, some might use it as a downpayment on their own property out of state in a city that's a lot more affordable for low wage workers , which would be the smartest thing to do.
I agree with you on rent control though, it's a bad policy. The cities with the strongest rent control have the highest market rents.
But it does no good for landlords to stuff a handful of cash into a tenants hand to get them to move, that was the point I was trying to make, we need those people if they are working in the city, having them all move to Tucson won't help LA.

The nominal amount that wages could be raised while still yielding the business owner a profit is not enough to make up for the rent increases. If wages go up 2% a year and rents go up 10% how long can a middle class person make up that difference before they give up and move out of the state?

My stepson lives in San Francisco and pays $1700 a month for daycare for a 4 year old, that is just crazy. Fortunately the kid is starting transitional kindergarten soon so he won't need full time day care, but how could a school teacher earning 60 or 70k ever afford that? I don't have many answers, but I think we should be able to agree that the trajectory of this gentrification is unsustainable without running every small business and most of the middle class out of all of our major cities.
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