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Old 07-06-2018, 09:10 AM
 
25,361 posts, read 18,864,148 times
Reputation: 9868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
There is no right to not be offended. Just like many are offended by the rainbow flag, and the travesty of lighting the White House up like that, but there was no call to ban that flag just be some may be offended.

Don't like the Confederate Flag? Don't stare at it. Problem solved.
I tend to agree with you there, and not because I like the confederate flag or support it.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:22 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,030 posts, read 8,636,237 times
Reputation: 12327
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I know it's a cost of living issue, but those cost of living issues have disparate impacts on African Americans for some obvious reasons.

You cannot claim that the South and confederates are more racists when Californians are perfectly content to allow poor people, disproportionately Black to die out in the streets.

In short, while I DO NOT support the Confederate flag, I don't see how anyone can say it is the most pressing issue concerning AAs. Homelessness, mass incarceration, income inequality, lack of access of quality healthcare are killing people.

The confederate flag by itself does not kill people, though obviously white hate groups use it as a symbol and they can be violent. But not being able to see racism unless someone waves the flag or dresses in white robes is just screwed up.

Anyone who has seen Skid Row cannot seriously say racism is not just as open in California as it is anywhere in the nation, including the deep South. Possibly worse.
Not sure if you are using the personal pronoun ”you” personally or generically in the above. I certainly haven’t commented on whether southern whites or Californians are more racist than the other. Not have I suggested that the flag is the most pressing issue for AA’s.

That aside, back to your observation of racism as exhibited by disproportionate skid row population. That is an economic function. Your inference is that economics are worse for blacks in LA due to racism. While there is truth in general to that, you are overreaching. There IS work available, at all levels, in LA regardless of race. There IS housing available in LA regardless of race, it’s just too expensive for most anyone in low level pay jobs, regardless of race.

The people on skid row are there due to a wide variety of reasons. Race in of itself is among the least.

In all your other points re: the many faces of racism I concur ... very poorly masked and very pernicious.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
23,579 posts, read 10,775,413 times
Reputation: 17693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
No. This is an issue of symbology. Humans are funny (not funny haha) about symbols. They get really triggered by a totally passive force. Emotion overruns rationality.

Suggesting that a person simply “[not] stare at it” equals “problem solved” is to ignore the psychological nature of our species. While one person turns away - another person feeds on the meaning and carries his/her passion forward into social / anti-social behavior ... most specifically, in this case discussed, the person(s) feeling emotionally compelled to make his/her statement to everyone around themselves.
Emotion only overruns rationality in weak minded, self indulgent people that feel entitled to tell other people what to do because of their personal FEELINGS. You are saying humans as a species have no control over their emotions. That isn't true at all. Many people see things daily in which they disagree, or may elicit an emotional THOUGHT, but no emotional RESPONSE.

Last edited by Pilot1; 07-06-2018 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
38,089 posts, read 34,106,770 times
Reputation: 22264
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if some of you were flying confederate flags or otherwise have confederate symbols in your home.
I know a lot of people that do because they were from the South. And, they don't care what anyone thinks about it either.


We were just in N Carolina and about every other boat had a flag on it.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:05 AM
 
Location: California
2,830 posts, read 2,023,205 times
Reputation: 2692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer View Post
I bet you would've said the same thing to African-Americans fighting for civil rights in the '60s.
We don't know that the person who flew this flag actually supports racism. People are assuming that.

For some, the confederate flag is simply a symbol of decentralization of government... it represents people who believe strongly in states' rights, and limited federal government.

In other words, it is entirely possible to support the flag for reasons other than racial superiority and slavery. Does that mean people should fly this flag? Personally, I don't think so as I find it distasteful, but this is a free country, and the 1st amendment still stands.

Last edited by ryanst530; 07-06-2018 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:10 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,030 posts, read 8,636,237 times
Reputation: 12327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Emotion only overruns rationality in weak minded, self indulgent people that feel entitled to tell other people what to do because of their personal FEELINGS. You are saying humans as a species have no control over their emotions. That isn't true at all. Many people see things daily in which they disagree, or may elicit an emotional THOUGHT, but no emotional RESPONSE.
I’m sure you believe this ... particularly that you are an example of controlled rationality. If you care to study physical anthropology and brain development in mammals in general you’ll find your statement above to be wishful thinking. Very few people - and I do mean ‘almost none’ - are StarTrek Spock-like humanoids. We tend to be sadly / humorously narcissitic in our belief in ourselves as primarily intellectually rational creatures.

Brush up on your brain systems education. Limbic, basil ganglia, amygdala, and so forth. The ‘reptilian brain’ isn’t all a bad thing ... but it is foundational. Your foundational reactive brain is survival oriented and always ready to assume it is required ... whether your rational processing centers like it or not.

Those emotional THOUGHTS that you think you don’t act on in overt RESPONSE still play subliminal roles in your behaviors and decisions. Whether your narcissistic ego is willing to recognize it or not.

In any case, expecting the average Joe and Jane to be Spock-like is just naive. 10,000 years of human behaviors since we left the caves proves it. A bunch of monkeys that can read is all we have proven to be. Ever watch a troop of monkeys behave? Especially toward a separate social troop?
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Nashville TN, Cincinnati, OH
1,798 posts, read 1,284,864 times
Reputation: 2336
I would fly the Israeli flag just to see if it gets the same reaction.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:16 AM
 
Location: 60630
12,549 posts, read 18,699,132 times
Reputation: 12065
Last time I saw a confederate flag was just outside Berlin Germany. I was sitting on the train and we passed some houses close to the tracks. One of them had the confederate flag in their backyard.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:18 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,030 posts, read 8,636,237 times
Reputation: 12327
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
We don't know that the person who flew this flag actually supports racism. People are assuming that.

For some, the confederate flag is simply a symbol of decentralization of government... it represents people who believe strongly in states' rights, and limited federal government.

In other words, it is entirely possible to support the flag for reasons other than racial superiority and slavery.
Anyone capable of embracing the ideologies of de-centralized government is also certainly aware of that flag’s historical racist overtones. If the desire is to declare to strangers and neighbors that you embrace decentralized government rebelliously you can look to the Gadsten “Don’t Tread On Me” flag created during the American Revolution and carried by the first Marines as their banner of rebellion against tyranny. Lots of libertarian protest. No racism. Tea Party people have been getting a lot of mileage out of it for some years now.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:13 PM
 
95 posts, read 60,642 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Some people are actually native to this land and didn’t move here .
Mind. Blown.
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