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Old 08-19-2018, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,843 posts, read 15,546,051 times
Reputation: 24436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberfx1024 View Post
Well the argument some people use is "Why should you fly a flag that was defeated by the USA in wartime?". So that is why I responded like I did.
Also Mexico has a history of enslaving the Native Americans.
That was never the argument, but if you want to double down on silly....John Augustus Sutter who was granted 48,000 acres at the confluence of the Sacramento and American rivers forced Native Americans to work at his fort under horrible conditions, traded some of them to settle his debt and sold their children to local settlers, so does that mean that the California state flag be banned?
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Arizona
1,380 posts, read 1,239,154 times
Reputation: 1997
If you're at a NASCAR event, isn't a Confederate flag mandatory?
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,843 posts, read 15,546,051 times
Reputation: 24436
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBeachBum View Post
I used to work for the DPS in Texas as well as a local court in Harris County, Texas. It's been my experience that people constantly say black people are unfairly and disproportionately sentenced for drug crimes, but that's really not the case.
Do black people, from time to time get unfairly sentenced based on their race? Sure. However, it's been my experience that most judges will give harsher sentences to habitual offenders.
For example, Criminal A, is a 28 year old white male and was arrested for being pulled over with an ounce of marijuana. Criminal B, is a 28 year old black male and was arrested for being pulled over with an ounce of marijuana. This is the first time Criminal A has ever been in trouble with the law, the judge sentences him to 6 months in county jail followed by 6 months of probation.
Criminal B has been arrested for drugs multiple times, domestic violence, and DUI in the past. Criminal B has been in and out of jail since he was 14 years old. The judge notices his criminal past and sentences Criminal B to 5 years in state prison.
Is it fair? That's debatable. However, that's how our justice system works. If you can't stay out of trouble, our court system looks at your criminal history when determining what your current punishment will be.
What you sort of forgot to mention is that blacks are stopped by Police more than any other race, they are searched more often and they are arrested for minor offenses more often. The bias starts before the judicial process. Many blacks enter adulthood with a criminal record, but if you look at it most of the offenses are non violent and many are status offenses, i.e school truancy violations- the same kind of 'crimes' that my white sons committed, but their punishment was a scolding by the police officer, not an arrest. That is a fact, it is absolutely indisputable and needs to be addressed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ates/19043207/

https://openpolicing.stanford.edu/findings/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8f83a9f86665
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:07 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
10,238 posts, read 19,225,975 times
Reputation: 10185
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
That was never the argument, but if you want to double down on silly....John Augustus Sutter who was granted 48,000 acres at the confluence of the Sacramento and American rivers forced Native Americans to work at his fort under horrible conditions, traded some of them to settle his debt and sold their children to local settlers, so does that mean that the California state flag be banned?
Should it be banned? I suppose that would depend on a couple of things. Does the California flag symbolize rebellion and treason against the United States? And was the American state of California formed for the expressed purpose of the enslavement of American Indians?

In any event people should be, and are, free to display anything they want on their own property, subject to zoning I suppose. But what is displayed on public property is subject to politics and rightfully so.
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Old 08-19-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,843 posts, read 15,546,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Should it be banned? I suppose that would depend on a couple of things. Does the California flag symbolize rebellion and treason against the United States? And was the American state of California formed for the expressed purpose of the enslavement of American Indians?

In any event people should be, and are, free to display anything they want on their own property, subject to zoning I suppose. But what is displayed on public property is subject to politics and rightfully so.
I was responding to the contention that the Mexican flag should be banned because some Mexicans enslaved native Americans. No, of course neither the Mexican or California State Flag should be banned, Mexico banned slavery in 1824 and as far as I know the citizens of Mexico have never defended or celebrated slavery.

And while it's a nuanced argument, most enslaved people in the world were enslaved for a set period of time, or until a debt was paid, unlike the Confederate South where enslavement was permanent and extended to the slaves progeny in perpetuity.

And I agree that you should be free to display any flag you want on your own property but some people seem to think that it's perfectly ok to display a confederate flag in public places, even outside of courthouses.

https://www.wjbf.com/news/south-caro...flag/896393083
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,311,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
What you sort of forgot to mention is that blacks are stopped by Police more than any other race, they are searched more often and they are arrested for minor offenses more often. The bias starts before the judicial process.
Blacks have a lot more interactions with the police because of their disproportionately high rates of interactions with the criminal justice system as a whole, such as prior convictions, prior prison time served, probationary concerns and interactions with the juvenile system.

The unfortunate fact that innocent blacks are consistently stopped due to driving while black, etc. has a lot to do with the enormous rate of criminality in the black community. The bias is based on the perception of criminality which is, sadly, statistically TRUE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Many blacks enter adulthood with a criminal record, but if you look at it most of the offenses are non violent and many are status offenses, i.e school truancy violations- the same kind of 'crimes' that my white sons committed, but their punishment was a scolding by the police officer, not an arrest. That is a fact, it is absolutely indisputable and needs to be addressed.
Sentencing is what you are getting at. When punishment is meted, considerations necessarily include recidivism. Recidivism is a huge issue in this community. Therefore, one cannot compare truancy violations in a vacuum and conclude that there are not other factors other than race that would have allowed “your white sons” (an anecdote, by the way) to have received lesser punishment. There are many other issues. Obama and the former attorney general focused on punishments against black kids, but they never looked the absolutely SHOCKING rates of delinquency committed by this one group.

Everyone shoud redirect thier anger away from society and the police, and place it where it belongs: In the hands of the perpetrators of all this crime/delinquency because it is they who cause a perception of criminality that everyone (including black officers) perceives with especially young blacks, especially young black men.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
33,843 posts, read 15,546,051 times
Reputation: 24436
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Blacks have a lot more interactions with the police because of their disproportionately high rates of interactions with the criminal justice system as a whole, such as prior convictions, prior prison time served, probationary concerns and interactions with the juvenile system.
Police rarely know the criminal history of a person before they decide to stop/detain or arrest them. Nice try though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
The unfortunate fact that innocent blacks are consistently stopped due to driving while black, etc. has a lot to do with the enormous rate of criminality in the black community. The bias is based on the perception of criminality which is, sadly, statistically TRUE. .
Again, you are making wild a$$ guesses. Blacks are stopped more frequently even when they don't live in or aren't anywhere near a "black community".
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Sentencing is what you are getting at. When punishment is meted, considerations necessarily include recidivism. Recidivism is a huge issue in this community. Therefore, one cannot compare truancy violations in a vacuum and conclude that there are not other factors other than race that would have allowed “your white sons” (an anecdote, by the way) to have received lesser punishment. There are many other issues. Obama and the former attorney general focused on punishments against black kids, but they never looked the absolutely SHOCKING rates of delinquency committed by this one group.
You really should research these issues before you start talking.
"Black men who commit the same crimes as white men receive federal prison sentences that are, on average, nearly 20 percent longer, according to a new report on sentencing disparities from the United States Sentencing Commission (USSC). These disparities were observed “after controlling for a wide variety of sentencing factors,” including age, education, citizenship, weapon possession and prior criminal history."" https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e4d5f25a022a

And regarding school discipiline:

"black students are punished more harshly than white students in schools even when black and white students engage in identical or similar behavior." https://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...lack-or-white/
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
Everyone shoud redirect thier anger away from society and the police, and place it where it belongs: In the hands of the perpetrators of all this crime/delinquency because it is they who cause a perception of criminality that everyone (including black officers) perceives with especially young blacks, especially young black men.
You don't know enough about this issue to give advice. Blacks are stopped/searched/detained/ and arrested at a higher rate than their white counterparts. They also receive longer prison sentences. Facts are facts, I have presented them. They are indisputable and supported by years of data. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:09 PM
Status: "Corona Virus is here. God be with you" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: where the good looking people are
3,824 posts, read 2,878,876 times
Reputation: 3284
The loud patriots are always:

Fat or out of shape. Chickened out of serving in combat, so they over compensate by excessive displays of phony patriotism.

It's kind of like the guys who drive lifted pick up trucks and have JUMBO tires, who are making up for a part of them that is *lacking* LoL

If you did not serve in combat and claim to be a patriot, you are just trying to gloss over the fact that when your country needed brave young men you were yellow and did not answer the call. Sorry all the flag waiving will not change the fact that you were yella.
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