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Old 07-05-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,318,012 times
Reputation: 7917

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
That's debatable to the extreme. You had severe persecution of African Americans in the North, who faced assault and worse if they left the areas they were designated too. They weren't allowed to study at universities, and few jobs were available for them. Oh, and unemployment was high.

The high crime rate in Black ghettoes in California and in the Northern states is the legacy of the extreme marginalization of Black people in these areas.

Persecution of Black people is a NATIONAL, not a Southern problem.

And let's not forget the historic mass incarceration of Black people. Black people use drugs at the same rate or less than white people, but are far more likely to be incarcerated. The victims of mass incarceration in California often end up in places like Skid Row.
You lost me but only at mass incarceration. Please provide the source of the claim that blacks use drugs at the same rate or lower than whites.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,318,012 times
Reputation: 7917
Is a MAGA hat a hate symbol too? It must be since it gets people attacked.

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/loc...reat-again-hat
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:20 AM
Status: "Quarantined" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Richmond,VA
3,698 posts, read 2,313,635 times
Reputation: 2754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer View Post
I don't care. Better keep all your rebel flag paraphernalia at home, guy. Wouldn't want anything to happen to your prized collection.

Come to my house and try taking away my "prized collection" and see how that works out for you.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:06 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,229 posts, read 8,737,093 times
Reputation: 12580
Whomp whomp! Virginia ina houuuse!
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:00 AM
 
52,080 posts, read 47,865,748 times
Reputation: 16237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
I'm in the South, which I think gives me some unique perspective on this issue.

Honestly, a lot of this is coming from people who want to be contrarian, to give a "middle finger" to what they see as the politically correct bogeyman telling them what they can and say or do. That's the message that has been sent from the top down, that it's okay to say whatever you want anytime you want, with the illusion of having no negative consequences.

Are some people flying a confederate flag to be openly racist? Yes, that's certainly possible. But I think equally or more likely is the possibility that they don't care it's divisive and that they feel a need to do something the politically correct crowd (as they see it) isn't going to approve of. And chances are someone like that is going to be uncouth and spiteful with other issues, so they're probably the type to turn the music up when someone asks them politely to turn it down, etc.

Here, we don't have people flying these flags nearly as the national media would want the rest of the country to believe. It's very rare in urban and suburban areas, but occasionally you do see this, more often in rural areas. Actually, there are more confederate flags in upper Appalachia (West Virginia, parts of Maryland & Ohio) than the deep South. Also, I saw this story and think it's interesting that the media likes to portray the southeast (particularly the rural southeast) as being backwards, openly racist and full of ignorant people, but if the intent of the flyer is to be racist, this is one example of many that shows that problem is not confined to one corner of the country.

Personally, even if they think they can "prove" the historic argument that they aren't being racist (the "Heritage not Hate" argument), I don't see the purpose of flying a flag that has been used for very racist purposes by many, and they know is going to be perceived as unfriendly towards certain people. Because of that, it just seems rude to do this. It's one of those things where "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" applies.

I got here from the "new posts" tab on the forum so I wanted to chime in.
I live in the South as well. I get to see the issue of the Confederate flag up close. I have been living in Georgia since the mid 1990s. For a time the southern cross version of the Confederate flag was part of Georgia's state flag. When I learned about the Civil War and the Confederacy over the years, it was enough to be against the Confederacy. It was enough for me to have a disdain for the Confederate flag.

I live in what you would call the "Deep South". I am about 45 minutes west of Atlanta. I've seen Confederate flags flying where I currently live. I've lived in other places, but due to some odd events, I'm back, living in the county where I went to middle school and high school. What I saw alot of during high school were alot of kids wearing Dixie Outfitter t-shirts, Confederate flag and all. This really disturbed me. I kept thinking "You know the CSA seceded because they wanted slavery". And some of the kids were otherwise nice, polite people who weren't calling me the "N" word (I dealt with alot of racism in high school, alot of it perpetuated by those who had a love of the CSA). I did call a few persons out on it. I would often get the "heritage not hate" line.

I am aware of the presence of racism everywhere in America, and not just bad race relations between Blacks and Whites. However, as someone who lives in the southeast, racism is present here. I've dealt with openly racist individuals myself. I lived in the Pacific Northwest for a time (as did the my family). We saw less open racism there than in the South.

I've never been to West Virginia or Maryland. When it comes to Appalachia, I've gone to the parts of Appalachia within Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee. I've been through part of Kentucky as a kid, but I went "through" it.

When it comes to political correctness and being against it, I at least need to mention this. Flying the Confederate flag just to go against political correctness does not make sense. There is at least some consideration that needs to be made. I look at the Confederate flag in a similar light as the Nazi flag. It is one thing to speak your mind. It is another to just be crass and hateful. I'm trying to get people think about what they are doing. I look at this from a moral perspective.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, Orange County CA
9,809 posts, read 8,318,012 times
Reputation: 7917
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I live in the South as well. I get to see the issue of the Confederate flag up close. I have been living in Georgia since the mid 1990s. For a time the southern cross version of the Confederate flag was part of Georgia's state flag. When I learned about the Civil War and the Confederacy over the years, it was enough to be against the Confederacy. It was enough for me to have a disdain for the Confederate flag.

I live in what you would call the "Deep South". I am about 45 minutes west of Atlanta. I've seen Confederate flags flying where I currently live. I've lived in other places, but due to some odd events, I'm back, living in the county where I went to middle school and high school. What I saw alot of during high school were alot of kids wearing Dixie Outfitter t-shirts, Confederate flag and all. This really disturbed me. I kept thinking "You know the CSA seceded because they wanted slavery". And some of the kids were otherwise nice, polite people who weren't calling me the "N" word (I dealt with alot of racism in high school, alot of it perpetuated by those who had a love of the CSA). I did call a few persons out on it. I would often get the "heritage not hate" line.

I am aware of the presence of racism everywhere in America, and not just bad race relations between Blacks and Whites. However, as someone who lives in the southeast, racism is present here. I've dealt with openly racist individuals myself. I lived in the Pacific Northwest for a time (as did the my family). We saw less open racism there than in the South.

I've never been to West Virginia or Maryland. When it comes to Appalachia, I've gone to the parts of Appalachia within Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee. I've been through part of Kentucky as a kid, but I went "through" it.

When it comes to political correctness and being against it, I at least need to mention this. Flying the Confederate flag just to go against political correctness does not make sense. There is at least some consideration that needs to be made. I look at the Confederate flag in a similar light as the Nazi flag. It is one thing to speak your mind. It is another to just be crass and hateful. I'm trying to get people think about what they are doing. I look at this from a moral perspective.
I tend to agree that flying that flag to be contrarian, does not make sense. The issue I have is with purveyors of violence and that is why I even suggested flying one to get a particular person arrested. I do agree with you.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:35 AM
 
95 posts, read 60,946 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZUMAN View Post
Come to my house and try taking away my "prized collection" and see how that works out for you.
Closet racist, huh?
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:57 AM
 
52,080 posts, read 47,865,748 times
Reputation: 16237
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
I tend to agree that flying that flag to be contrarian, does not make sense. The issue I have is with purveyors of violence and that is why I even suggested flying one to get a particular person arrested. I do agree with you.
This is how I see being contrarian, just for the sake of it. It doesn't accomplish anything. It just makes said person look like an idiot.

Promoting violence is not a good idea. Violence should be only in response to those perpetrating violence on to you or for defense.

Back to the Confederate flag. I look at this issue from a perspective of right and wrong. I look at it from the perspective of history. If one knows what the Confederate cause is about, said person should do better and not fly the flag. Flying the Confederate flag out of contrarianism is just a sign of petulant behavior.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:07 PM
 
52,080 posts, read 47,865,748 times
Reputation: 16237
This is my stance. No one should fly the Confederate flag, period. It is a morally bankrupt thing to do. The cause it represents is a morally wrong cause. The Confederate cause was about keeping slavery and that is why the southern states wanted secession. Sure, it was about states' rights, the right of the states to have slavery and treat humans like property.

Now, this is what surprises me. This is California, which entered the USA as a free state. Furthermore, this is Palos Verdes Estates. This is a master-planned community on the Los Angeles County coastline. This is one of the wealthiest places in America to live in. For as much as I don't ever want to see a Confederate flag flown, I expect that in the rural parts of Georgia or Alabama, not in a wealthy coastal community in California.
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Old 07-05-2018, 12:37 PM
 
Location: SoCal
3,877 posts, read 2,825,884 times
Reputation: 3183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer View Post
My favorite is the "celebrating our Southern heritage" crowd. Flying the flag of losers who opposed freedom? Why can't people just admit they're racist instead of pretending to be historians and deflecting by claiming everyone is soft and too easily offended? Just sack up and admit you support slavery: then and now. Would flying a Nazi flag be okay?
Right!!! It's amazing that we have this argument that everyone knows what the real reason for the argument is, but some can't man up about it. Sad to say the least or weak I should say.
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