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Old 07-06-2018, 07:06 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC View Post
You lost me but only at mass incarceration. Please provide the source of the claim that blacks use drugs at the same rate or lower than whites.
Van Jones claim on drug use, imprisonment rates for blacks, whites is mostly accurate | PunditFact

and

The Drug War, Mass Incarceration and Race (English/Spanish) | Drug Policy Alliance
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:12 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I live in the South as well. I get to see the issue of the Confederate flag up close. I have been living in Georgia since the mid 1990s. For a time the southern cross version of the Confederate flag was part of Georgia's state flag. When I learned about the Civil War and the Confederacy over the years, it was enough to be against the Confederacy. It was enough for me to have a disdain for the Confederate flag.

I live in what you would call the "Deep South". I am about 45 minutes west of Atlanta. I've seen Confederate flags flying where I currently live. I've lived in other places, but due to some odd events, I'm back, living in the county where I went to middle school and high school. What I saw alot of during high school were alot of kids wearing Dixie Outfitter t-shirts, Confederate flag and all. This really disturbed me. I kept thinking "You know the CSA seceded because they wanted slavery". And some of the kids were otherwise nice, polite people who weren't calling me the "N" word (I dealt with alot of racism in high school, alot of it perpetuated by those who had a love of the CSA). I did call a few persons out on it. I would often get the "heritage not hate" line.

I am aware of the presence of racism everywhere in America, and not just bad race relations between Blacks and Whites. However, as someone who lives in the southeast, racism is present here. I've dealt with openly racist individuals myself. I lived in the Pacific Northwest for a time (as did the my family). We saw less open racism there than in the South.

I've never been to West Virginia or Maryland. When it comes to Appalachia, I've gone to the parts of Appalachia within Georgia, North Carolina, and Tennessee. I've been through part of Kentucky as a kid, but I went "through" it.

When it comes to political correctness and being against it, I at least need to mention this. Flying the Confederate flag just to go against political correctness does not make sense. There is at least some consideration that needs to be made. I look at the Confederate flag in a similar light as the Nazi flag. It is one thing to speak your mind. It is another to just be crass and hateful. I'm trying to get people think about what they are doing. I look at this from a moral perspective.
https://www.thenation.com/article/ne...equal-schools/

NYC has the most segregated school system in the nation, and you historically had substantial residential segregation in NYC and you had race riots. Then again LA and other cities had substantial race riots as well.

Are neo-confederates nice people? No. But you do not need to fly the confederate flag or put on a KKK outfit to be a racist. Large numbers of Blacks and Latinos got their lives destroyed by the war on drugs in major urban centers.

I'm not suggesting you love the flag, or that you stop opposing it. But the problems that harm Black Americans are going to continue with or without the flag. The true issue is Black Americans were historically marginalized and denied education and employment opportunities throughout the country, and only permitted to live in certain areas. Oh, and the war on drugs has been a war on Black people, as Black people use drugs about the same rate as white people but are 5 or 6 times more likely to go to prison for it. Battling that is much more important than caring whether or not someone has a confederate flag on their truck or not.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:18 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
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And to be completely honest, look at LA. "Safe", white areas are places like Beverly Hills, much of the West side, certain places in the mountains, etc.

The "unsafe" parts of the county are Black areas, where you have wretched poverty and violence. It would take an extreme effort for someone to be able to move from a "bad" area to a "good" area.

It's ridiculous to claim people in the Southeast, even confederates are more racist than well off whites who deliberately exclude Blacks from their neighborhoods in California. At least the confederate flag fliers are more honest about their racism.

Setting up a situation in which you exclude 99% of Blacks from living in your neighborhood or working at your company, but hiring one or two for "diversity" purposes does not make you "good" at all.

One thing I notice about the Southeast is at least you have a lot of African American homeowners and people who drive cars, and I've always felt the South had a bigger percentage of middle and upper middle class Blacks. Unlike certain cities which have most Black people in the poor section of town, working rock bottom jobs.

All this man and you want to complain about a FLAG? Dude, please.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:19 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer View Post
I think it's safe to say people move to Los Angeles/The West Coast to get away from people who believe flying that flag is okay.
Why, when you have a lot of racial segregation in California and massive homelessness. Oh, and Skid Row is heavily African American.

At least the people flying the flag are a honest, as opposed to progressives who place in policies that they KNOW marginalize the majority of people of color.

You don't have massive homelessness among people in the Deep South. How is it is supposedly progressive California, you see so many homeless people, including people with diabetes missing their body parts.

Fake liberals and progressives need to go to hell.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:26 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,036 posts, read 8,644,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post

You don't have massive homelessness among people in the Deep South. How is it is supposedly progressive California, you see so many homeless people, including people with diabetes missing their body parts.
You and Green have both been making good points throughout your debate ... however, here, the difference in homelessness rates from the south and California is mostly Cost of Living issues ... specifically: housing.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
74,864 posts, read 87,274,042 times
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You know if people understood the confederate flag a little better they would realize it is part of southern pride and has little if anything to do with racial issues. Maybe it did 100 years ago or even 50 but not today. I was born and raised in Ca, have lived in southern states off and on in the past 40 years and understand the reason for the flag. It is a sign of being proud to be a southerner and that is the end of it. Maybe to some it still represents the split between no and south dating back to the civil war but no more. I know a lot of people who are proud of the flag that are anything but racists.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
23,605 posts, read 10,782,374 times
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There is no right to not be offended. Just like many are offended by the rainbow flag, and the travesty of lighting the White House up like that, but there was no call to ban that flag just be some may be offended.

Don't like the Confederate Flag? Don't stare at it. Problem solved.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: On the water.
15,036 posts, read 8,644,443 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmnita View Post
You know if people understood the confederate flag a little better they would realize it is part of southern pride and has little if anything to do with racial issues. Maybe it did 100 years ago or even 50 but not today. I was born and raised in Ca, have lived in southern states off and on in the past 40 years and understand the reason for the flag. It is a sign of being proud to be a southerner and that is the end of it. Maybe to some it still represents the split between no and south dating back to the civil war but no more. I know a lot of people who are proud of the flag that are anything but racists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
There is no right to not be offended. Just like many are offended by the rainbow flag, and the travesty of lighting the White House up like that, but there was no call to ban that flag just be some may be offended.

Don't like the Confederate Flag? Don't stare at it. Problem solved.
No. This is an issue of symbology. Humans are funny (not funny haha) about symbols. They get really triggered by a totally passive force. Emotion overruns rationality.

Suggesting that a person simply “[not] stare at it” equals “problem solved” is to ignore the psychological nature of our species. While one person turns away - another person feeds on the meaning and carries his/her passion forward into social / anti-social behavior ... most specifically, in this case discussed, the person(s) feeling emotionally compelled to make his/her statement to everyone around themselves.

Symbol of southern pride”? Southern pride for what? ... as set apart from American unified pride? Pride in being a melting pot nation embracing the brotherhood of man.

Which pride deserves precedence over the other?
Being a southerner over being an American who embraces the essential character of the nation?
Or being an American who respects all Americans and all peoples?
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:06 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
Reputation: 9873
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
You and Green have both been making good points throughout your debate ... however, here, the difference in homelessness rates from the south and California is mostly Cost of Living issues ... specifically: housing.
I know it's a cost of living issue, but those cost of living issues have disparate impacts on African Americans for some obvious reasons.

You cannot claim that the South and confederates are more racists when Californians are perfectly content to allow poor people, disproportionately Black to die out in the streets.

In short, while I DO NOT support the Confederate flag, I don't see how anyone can say it is the most pressing issue concerning AAs. Homelessness, mass incarceration, income inequality, lack of access of quality healthcare are killing people.

The confederate flag by itself does not kill people, though obviously white hate groups use it as a symbol and they can be violent. But not being able to see racism unless someone waves the flag or dresses in white robes is just screwed up.

Anyone who has seen Skid Row cannot seriously say racism is not just as open in California as it is anywhere in the nation, including the deep South. Possibly worse.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:09 AM
 
25,368 posts, read 18,879,347 times
Reputation: 9873
And let's be honest, LA and California didn't do anything about the escalating costs of living because they were using gentrification to drive out the poor (many Blacks among them) out of the state, into the desert, or in the ocean or whatever. And people call the South racist.

Please.

And I'm not denying the obvious history of racism in the South. But it's a national, not a regional problem.
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