Confederate flag raises eyebrows in Palos Verdes Estates (Lincoln: crime rate, employment)

[cyberfx1024]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh snap! That’s right! Mexico was a repressive racist regime enslaving Californians!

How quickly we forget! Thanks for the instructive equivalency

Carry on all ...

Oh yeah they enslaved the Native American tribes and turned tribes into "Missions".

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by cyberfx1024

So basically you are talking about people who fly the Confederate flag and the Mexican flag right? Since Mexico was defeated and thus California is apart of the USA now and not Mexico.

What the...?!?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by ryanst530

The only reason you feel it is divisive is because you are letting it get to you, which ironically strengthens the divide that already exists, and forces these people who fly hate flags to further defend their viewpoints.

Very, very few adults change their minds when others attack them for expressing their belief in something.

IMO, it is more productive to express your disapproval of such people with your pocketbook and votes.

It "feels" divisive because it is divisive. The very cause it represents is divisive and ugly. No bones about it. Why does it "get to me"? I will tell you why. I understand right from wrong. No one will lock you up for flying a Confederate flag. However, why does said persons want to fly such a flag? That is a question you need to ask yourself.

And here is the thing about adults. Alot of people will do stupid things, knowing how wrong they are. If what a person is representing and believing in is a cause that would directly hurt me, I have every cause to speak out against said persons and let them know how wrong they are.

How would the pocketbook get people to stop flying Confederate flags?

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer

I don't disagree entirely but staying silent makes people think displaying a symbol of hate is acceptable.

You expressed it better than I have. By remaining silent, it sends a message to said persons: "We accept you flying the Confederate flag. We're okay with it". Why would anyone be okay with something so reprehensible and wrong?

[cyberfx1024]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

What the...?!?

Well the argument some people use is "Why should you fly a flag that was defeated by the USA in wartime?". So that is why I responded like I did.

Also Mexico has a history of enslaving the Native Americans.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by cyberfx1024

So basically you are talking about people who fly the Confederate flag and the Mexican flag right? Since Mexico was defeated and thus California is apart of the USA now and not Mexico.

Uh, big difference. U.S. attacked and annexed California from Mexico, not the other way around. The Confederates fired on U.S. soil because they were so desperate to keep slavery around. Quit with your false equivalence crap.

[cyberfx1024]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Uh, big difference. U.S. attacked and annexed California from Mexico, not the other way around. The Confederates fired on U.S. soil because they were so desperate to keep slavery around. Quit with your false equivalence crap.

Actually the Mexican/American War started in Texas and thus the U.S. invaded California as part of the war. Also Lincoln was willing to keep slavery going in the South, but the South had had enough of a Federal government trying to tell them how to run their states. This is the big reason outside of the Deep South that the Civil war was fought due to states rights.

It's not false equivalence at all its the truth and the same in my book.

[Irishtom29]

Originally Posted by cyberfx1024

Oh yeah they enslaved the Native American tribes and turned tribes into "Missions".

Actually enslaving American Indians was against Spanish law, though it was legal to enslave non Spanish Europeans and Africans. It was legal to turn Indians into exploited peasants and serfs but then it was legal to do that to Spaniards as well. It was a tough world. I’m unsure at the moment if Mexican law allowed enslavement of Indians.

The Spanish ran their empire on the Roman model of turning the inhabitants of conquered territories into Romans; thus the Spanish sought to turn the Indians into Spaniards and the missions were a means of doing this. Which I think was actually rather enlightened compared to the English model of making the Indians go away. The Spanish didn’t deny the humanity of Blacks and American Indians as the English did.

[Jowel]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

This is the thing. If there are people flying the Confederate flag, that is a sign that we've been divided for a long time. If we are already at or beyond that point, then we need to ask why. Why are those persons who fly Confederate flags do what they do? Why do they pick a symbol that is inherently divisive and represent a cause that nearly literally destroyed this country?

I'm in the South, which I think gives me some unique perspective on this issue.

Honestly, a lot of this is coming from people who want to be contrarian, to give a "middle finger" to what they see as the politically correct bogeyman telling them what they can and say or do. That's the message that has been sent from the top down, that it's okay to say whatever you want anytime you want, with the illusion of having no negative consequences.

Are some people flying a confederate flag to be openly racist? Yes, that's certainly possible. But I think equally or more likely is the possibility that they don't care it's divisive and that they feel a need to do something the politically correct crowd (as they see it) isn't going to approve of. And chances are someone like that is going to be uncouth and spiteful with other issues, so they're probably the type to turn the music up when someone asks them politely to turn it down, etc.

Here, we don't have people flying these flags nearly as the national media would want the rest of the country to believe. It's very rare in urban and suburban areas, but occasionally you do see this, more often in rural areas. Actually, there are more confederate flags in upper Appalachia (West Virginia, parts of Maryland & Ohio) than the deep South. Also, I saw this story and think it's interesting that the media likes to portray the southeast (particularly the rural southeast) as being backwards, openly racist and full of ignorant people, but if the intent of the flyer is to be racist, this is one example of many that shows that problem is not confined to one corner of the country.

Personally, even if they think they can "prove" the historic argument that they aren't being racist (the "Heritage not Hate" argument), I don't see the purpose of flying a flag that has been used for very racist purposes by many, and they know is going to be perceived as unfriendly towards certain people. Because of that, it just seems rude to do this. It's one of those things where "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" applies.

I got here from the "new posts" tab on the forum so I wanted to chime in.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by cyberfx1024

Well the argument some people use is "Why should you fly a flag that was defeated by the USA in wartime?". So that is why I responded like I did.

Also Mexico has a history of enslaving the Native Americans.

No. The argument is about displaying a symbol identified with racism. Which the Mexican flag is not.

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Uh, big difference. U.S. attacked and annexed California from Mexico, not the other way around. The Confederates fired on U.S. soil because they were so desperate to keep slavery around. Quit with your false equivalence crap.

Originally Posted by cyberfx1024

Actually the Mexican/American War started in Texas and thus the U.S. invaded California as part of the war. Also Lincoln was willing to keep slavery going in the South, but the South had had enough of a Federal government trying to tell them how to run their states. This is the big reason outside of the Deep South that the Civil war was fought due to states rights.

It's not false equivalence at all its the truth and the same in my book.

It’s gross false equivalence. Hilariously so.