Living in LA, but not willing to pay your taxes (Los Angeles: how much, gated)

[Mr_Geek]

Congrats on successfully breaking the law I guess?

[601halfdozen0theother]

You guys are dumb.

We had this conversation in the Minnesota forum, and I had to explain it to them, too.

The state doesn't care about WHERE you earn your income, the state cares that YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE STATE SERVICES YOU USE WHILE YOU LIVE THERE. These include roads, law enforcement, infrastructure maintenance, libraries, the DMV, aid to the poor citizens of your state, public employee pensions, and etc. That's what your income taxes pay for. So, no matter where your income comes from, you are paying CA state income tax for all of the fabulous things your CA state gov't provides for you (whatever those may be) while you live there.


Since I was a job hopper from state to state (including 4 miserable years in Los Angeles, 6 in CA total), I've paid "Part Year Resident" income taxes in many different states. Each state has different rules as to how "part year" is defined.

Now I have income from property in 3 different states, in addition to investment income (which has no actual state source.) That meant that not only do I pay income tax in the 3 states in which my property is located, but since I lived in MN I was paying MN income tax on my various income streams - because as a normal everyday resident I was using normal everyday state services while I lived there.

That peeved me off, so I moved to a no income tax state (property taxes here are awful, though). I guess you sillies still stuck in CA have the option to move, too. But don't. Stay there.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by (901)

I still have my Tenn home and all the bills that come with it. I live in vacation rental homes and use rental cars in Los Angeles so who's to say that I'm not on vacation for 6 months at a time?

I really do appreciate your input. Not trying to be a d--k

So who is to say? The California FTB. Then the burden is on you to prove otherwise.

Let me repeat that: The California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) does not need to prove you are a resident for income tax purposes. The burden is on you to prove you are not. (This isn't like a court of law where the burden is on the State to prove guilt).

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by (901)

Thank You! I over looked your response earler. Sounds like you actually know what your talking about. Guess I need to start counting my days

Yes, start counting your days. Keep a journal or diary that shows your location by day for the entire year. Keep receipts of ATM transactions, keep records showing when & in what state you went to see a doctor or dentist, etc.

Most importantly, do not acquire an asset in CA. Given you are in the real estate business, you might be tempted to acquire, say, a commercial building in CA. If you do, you now have California sourced income and are subject to its taxation laws even if you never set foot in the state.

Not to change subjects, but let's take a major corporation with facilities in many states across the USA, including CA. Let's say you work for the corporation in TN. You take a business trip to CA for a week, then return to TN. Technically, CA might assert that 1/52 of your income was sourced in CA. This isn't a joke. As a practical matter, rank-and-file employees wouldn't be audited for compliance, but executives of the company would be. The payroll department of the major corporation would work with the executive's administrative assistant to track days inside CA and withhold income taxes & payroll taxes for that number of days, etc.

If you are a Tennessee Titan professional football player or staff member, and you play an away-game inside California, you have an income tax obligation inside California (and yes, the FTB works with the NFL to ensure compliance among the payroll departments of the teams).

[(901)]

Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother

You guys are dumb.

We had this conversation in the Minnesota forum, and I had to explain it to them, too.

The state doesn't care about WHERE you earn your income, the state cares that YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE STATE SERVICES YOU USE WHILE YOU LIVE THERE. These include roads, law enforcement, infrastructure maintenance, libraries, the DMV, aid to the poor citizens of your state, public employee pensions, and etc. That's what your income taxes pay for. So, no matter where your income comes from, you are paying CA state income tax for all of the fabulous things your CA state gov't provides for you (whatever those may be) while you live there.


Since I was a job hopper from state to state (including 4 miserable years in Los Angeles, 6 in CA total), I've paid "Part Year Resident" income taxes in many different states. Each state has different rules as to how "part year" is defined.

Now I have income from property in 3 different states, in addition to investment income (which has no actual state source.) That meant that not only do I pay income tax in the 3 states in which my property is located, but since I lived in MN I was paying MN income tax on my various income streams - because as a normal everyday resident I was using normal everyday state services while I lived there.

That peeved me off, so I moved to a no income tax state (property taxes here are awful, though). I guess you sillies still stuck in CA have the option to move, too. But don't. Stay there.

Roads, bridges & overpasses?!? I thought California state income tax went to illegals so they can get neck tattoos & 24" rims?!?

[JustMike77]

Originally Posted by (901)

Roads, bridges & overpasses?!? I thought California state income tax went to illegals so they can get neck tattoos & 24" rims?!?

You forgot the bums, err, I mean the misbegotten homeless people.

[(901)]

Originally Posted by Mr_Geek

Congrats on successfully breaking the law I guess?

What Law am I breaking?

[travelhound]

How do you maintain a vehicle? If you are tooting around with out of state plates, eventually it's going to catch up with you. I thought California was strict about residency, and that means cars technically can't be in the state more than 30 days, and you can't be in the state more then 181 consecutive days or you are legally a full time resident.

I suppose lots of people have primary residences in places like Nevada and Tennessee that also own secondary property in California. That is what I would like to do, however, you can't keep a vehicle in any given place without registering to the state more than 30 days, so how you would get around that, I don't know. Some towns are really strict about that, which is how they can keep tabs on who might be cheating the system for the very reasons you mention. What a pain to drive around California permanently with out of state plates. Yikes, I hesitate traveling there with my own car.

Why not just pay the darn tax, it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it's to live in California, remember? What's a couple of thousand dollars, that's what my bracket will be. I'll just pay it and keep my Tennessee property as the investment, if I get fed up I'll move back.

Maybe that's one reason why California is suffering so badly; everybody on the take.

Until California starts to do what the ACA was doing, which was to count assets as income, it's still livable for many people. When they get to that point, you'll see a mass exodus of the wealthy. The day I hear of any socialist plans to try to double or triple tax I'll be out. They already have an illegal Capital gains tax in Tennessee, apparently it's going to be "phased out" by 2022. Now California wants a capital gains tax.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by travelhound

How do you maintain a vehicle? If you are tooting around with out of state plates, eventually it's going to catch up with you. I thought California was strict about residency, and that means cars technically can't be in the state more than 30 days, and you can't be in the state more then 181 consecutive days or you are legally a full time resident.

I suppose lots of people have primary residences in places like Nevada and Tennessee that also own secondary property in California. That is what I would like to do, however, you can't keep a vehicle in any given place without registering to the state more than 30 days, so how you would get around that, I don't know. Some towns are really strict about that, which is how they can keep tabs on who might be cheating the system for the very reasons you mention. What a pain to drive around California permanently with out of state plates. Yikes, I hesitate traveling there with my own car.

Why not just pay the darn tax, it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it's to live in California, remember? What's a couple of thousand dollars, that's what my bracket will be. I'll just pay it and keep my Tennessee property as the investment, if I get fed up I'll move back.

Maybe that's one reason why California is suffering so badly; everybody on the take.

Until California starts to do what the ACA was doing, which was to count assets as income, it's still livable for many people. When they get to that point, you'll see a mass exodus of the wealthy. The day I hear of any socialist plans to try to double or triple tax I'll be out. They already have an illegal Capital gains tax in Tennessee, apparently it's going to be "phased out" by 2022. Now California wants a capital gains tax.

Where did you get that you can’t be in California for more than 30 days without getting CA plates? Do you mean if you establish a domicile you have 30 days? Because plenty of snowbirds come to CA for 4 and 5 months at a stretch and are never required to get CA licenses.

[(901)]

Originally Posted by travelhound

How do you maintain a vehicle? If you are tooting around with out of state plates, eventually it's going to catch up with you. I thought California was strict about residency, and that means cars technically can't be in the state more than 30 days, and you can't be in the state more then 181 consecutive days or you are legally a full time resident.

I suppose lots of people have primary residences in places like Nevada and Tennessee that also own secondary property in California. That is what I would like to do, however, you can't keep a vehicle in any given place without registering to the state more than 30 days, so how you would get around that, I don't know. Some towns are really strict about that, which is how they can keep tabs on who might be cheating the system for the very reasons you mention. What a pain to drive around California permanently with out of state plates. Yikes, I hesitate traveling there with my own car.

Why not just pay the darn tax, it's nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be, it's to live in California, remember? What's a couple of thousand dollars, that's what my bracket will be. I'll just pay it and keep my Tennessee property as the investment, if I get fed up I'll move back.

Maybe that's one reason why California is suffering so badly; everybody on the take.

Until California starts to do what the ACA was doing, which was to count assets as income, it's still livable for many people. When they get to that point, you'll see a mass exodus of the wealthy. The day I hear of any socialist plans to try to double or triple tax I'll be out. They already have an illegal Capital gains tax in Tennessee, apparently it's going to be "phased out" by 2022. Now California wants a capital gains tax.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Where did you get that you can’t be in California for more than 30 days without getting CA plates? Do you mean if you establish a domicile you have 30 days? Because plenty of snowbirds come to CA for 4 and 5 months at a stretch and are never required to get CA licenses.

I rent cars, so tagging is not my responsibility (neither is maintenance).
I never stay here for 6 months at a time.
I honestly don't see any law that I'm breaking