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We are moving back to California. We’ve tried living in several different areas including Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Tempe and Desert Ridge but each area has been unsatisfying. It’s true that for a Californian the opportunity to buy brand new homes in master planned communities is simply intoxicating. But eventually, one wants to have a life outside of the house. It’s hard here. Unless you have little kids or are retired.
We ended up in new homes because the resale homes out here were kinda gross. That’s mostly because the climate here is hard on the homes, and quite frankly, the older homes are extremely lived in. People who live here spend a great deal of time in their homes for a few reasons - the heat is oppressive and people hibernate, there’s not much to do other than walk around one of the few malls or hike (weather permitting - people are always getting rescued after being overcome by the heat). Also, the wages here don’t support the rapidly increasing cost of living here - so many people don’t have extra funds to pay for much entertainment. But that’s not really a problem, because there’s not much to do unless you like to walk around a festival of some sort - in the cooler months there’s usually some sort of pathetic artisan festival with the same artisans trying to sell their products at each venue. We stopped going to those after we realized that paying $10-15/person for the privilege of walking a few aisles staring at the same overpriced trinkets or food was a waste in more ways than one.
There is an art museum here. It’s boring. They say it’s contemporary art, but honestly Z Gallery is way more interesting. (Get a library culture pass and admission is free)
There is a kid’s science museum downtown- again, get a culture pass and save the admission for the one time you go.
There are some nice libraries here. The main one on Central - the biggest - is overrun with transients trying to escape either the heat of the summer or the cold rainy winters.
Transients begging for food and money is a fairly recent thing. Over the last couple of years it’s increasing rapidly and you see them everywhere. Unlike in California, social services here are sadly lacking. It’s heartbreaking to see these people.
To address social services a little deeper, I think most Californians would be surprised to learn that unemployment benefits in Arizona top out at $240/wk - that’s well below what CA pays. I’ve been told that there’s a new law that forces the unemployed to accept employment at a very low minimum wage after a certain amount of time (x amount of weeks) regardless of how much the unemployed person earned before or unemployment is terminated. Also the state of Arizona does not offer any sort by of disability benefit.
Apartment rents have risen tremendously and the brand new nice apartments in the nicest areas cost about the same as apartments in Sherman Oaks and Woodland Hills. You can still get older apartments at a fairly low cost. But much like the extremely lived in older houses, the older apartments are typically pretty worn. Ok - they’re gross.
I read some complaints about registering cars. It’s not truly cheap here. The car needs an inspection, and there’s a new govt fee that was recently instituted. The locals are in an uproar about it. I will say that the MVD process to register cars and get a license is a pure joy. It’s quick and easy - no appointment needed.
As home prices increase it will be interesting to see if wages increase too. This is a place where, at this point, someone can earn $40k, rent an apt and live fairly well - not luxuriously. Unless someone brings their CA equity windfall, they better have a very secure job, because if they buy a new house and have to rely on AZ wages, well the wages here are just not that great. Sure, some professionals earn in excess of 100k easily. But most jobs out here for regular people are well under that.
Oh, and regarding the man made lake that has been talked about - it’s polluted, smells in the heat and has dead bodies that surface on occasion. But Tempe Town Lake sure is pretty
I could go on, but I think I’ve said enough for now. I probably should have mentioned that Obamacare is a joke out here, nothing like what CA offers - but I won’t get into that.
I think it might be good for this area to get an influx of Californians with liberal demands. While conservative AZ was great at one time, their schools, social safety nets and entertainment is in serious need of improving. Hopefully a nice balance will be reached. Because it is true that many people just don’t see the sense or purpose in living in a place that makes it hard to enjoy life. Lots of people come here, take a breath and then figure out their next move - and leave.
Saying goodbye to my newly constructed really nice house - and saying hello to a decent apartment in a place that offers a more fulfilling life - with a BEACH! I need water after so many years of “dry heat!”
We are moving back to California. We’ve tried living in several different areas including Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Tempe and...
....the climate here is hard on the homes, and quite frankly, the older homes are extremely lived in. People who live here spend a great deal of time in their homes for a few reasons - the heat is oppressive and people hibernate, there’s not much to do other than walk around one of the few malls or hike...
...it is true that many people just don’t see the sense or purpose in living in a place that makes it hard to enjoy life. Lots of people come here, take a breath and then figure out their next move - and leave
We are moving back to California. We’ve tried living in several different areas including Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Tempe and Desert Ridge but each area has been unsatisfying. It’s true that for a Californian the opportunity to buy brand new homes in master planned communities is simply intoxicating. But eventually, one wants to have a life outside of the house. It’s hard here. Unless you have little kids or are retired.
We ended up in new homes because the resale homes out here were kinda gross. That’s mostly because the climate here is hard on the homes, and quite frankly, the older homes are extremely lived in. People who live here spend a great deal of time in their homes for a few reasons - the heat is oppressive and people hibernate, there’s not much to do other than walk around one of the few malls or hike (weather permitting - people are always getting rescued after being overcome by the heat). Also, the wages here don’t support the rapidly increasing cost of living here - so many people don’t have extra funds to pay for much entertainment. But that’s not really a problem, because there’s not much to do unless you like to walk around a festival of some sort - in the cooler months there’s usually some sort of pathetic artisan festival with the same artisans trying to sell their products at each venue. We stopped going to those after we realized that paying $10-15/person for the privilege of walking a few aisles staring at the same overpriced trinkets or food was a waste in more ways than one.
There is an art museum here. It’s boring. They say it’s contemporary art, but honestly Z Gallery is way more interesting. (Get a library culture pass and admission is free)
There is a kid’s science museum downtown- again, get a culture pass and save the admission for the one time you go.
There are some nice libraries here. The main one on Central - the biggest - is overrun with transients trying to escape either the heat of the summer or the cold rainy winters.
Transients begging for food and money is a fairly recent thing. Over the last couple of years it’s increasing rapidly and you see them everywhere. Unlike in California, social services here are sadly lacking. It’s heartbreaking to see these people.
To address social services a little deeper, I think most Californians would be surprised to learn that unemployment benefits in Arizona top out at $240/wk - that’s well below what CA pays. I’ve been told that there’s a new law that forces the unemployed to accept employment at a very low minimum wage after a certain amount of time (x amount of weeks) regardless of how much the unemployed person earned before or unemployment is terminated. Also the state of Arizona does not offer any sort by of disability benefit.
Apartment rents have risen tremendously and the brand new nice apartments in the nicest areas cost about the same as apartments in Sherman Oaks and Woodland Hills. You can still get older apartments at a fairly low cost. But much like the extremely lived in older houses, the older apartments are typically pretty worn. Ok - they’re gross.
I read some complaints about registering cars. It’s not truly cheap here. The car needs an inspection, and there’s a new govt fee that was recently instituted. The locals are in an uproar about it. I will say that the MVD process to register cars and get a license is a pure joy. It’s quick and easy - no appointment needed.
As home prices increase it will be interesting to see if wages increase too. This is a place where, at this point, someone can earn $40k, rent an apt and live fairly well - not luxuriously. Unless someone brings their CA equity windfall, they better have a very secure job, because if they buy a new house and have to rely on AZ wages, well the wages here are just not that great. Sure, some professionals earn in excess of 100k easily. But most jobs out here for regular people are well under that.
Oh, and regarding the man made lake that has been talked about - it’s polluted, smells in the heat and has dead bodies that surface on occasion. But Tempe Town Lake sure is pretty
I could go on, but I think I’ve said enough for now. I probably should have mentioned that Obamacare is a joke out here, nothing like what CA offers - but I won’t get into that.
I think it might be good for this area to get an influx of Californians with liberal demands. While conservative AZ was great at one time, their schools, social safety nets and entertainment is in serious need of improving. Hopefully a nice balance will be reached. Because it is true that many people just don’t see the sense or purpose in living in a place that makes it hard to enjoy life. Lots of people come here, take a breath and then figure out their next move - and leave.
Saying goodbye to my newly constructed really nice house - and saying hello to a decent apartment in a place that offers a more fulfilling life - with a BEACH! I need water after so many years of “dry heat!”
Museums and the beach are a non factor for me. So are social services, I've always been gainfully employed in the tech and aerospace sector. Due to California's excessive regulations, wages in the Phoenix area now match much of what you can get in SoCal.
Let's not even BEGIN to think about what will happen to middle class taxation in California when Gov Newsoms further socializing of the state take effect! Nope!
They come from worldwide, we cant count that place. And I'm not saying I myself dont do anything. What I am saying is that it is overall too hard and expensive, and restrictive, to "enjoy L.A." so why not live somewhere else that life is easier?
I'd imagine it's 75% or more local residents at Disneyland during non peak times.
Museums and the beach are a non factor for me. So are social services, I've always been gainfully employed in the tech and aerospace sector. Due to California's excessive regulations, wages in the Phoenix area now match much of what you can get in SoCal.
Let's not even BEGIN to think about what will happen to middle class taxation in California when Gov Newsoms further socializing of the state take effect! Nope!
Not sure where you are getting your information from. We are in tech (remote) and thankfully earning CA wages/benefits. After speaking with tech headhunters and corporate human capital people over the years, we’ve learned that our benefits are extraordinary and our wages far exceed local wages. Employers out here love that more qualified workers are moving here - so, yes there are plenty of jobs, but most are basic admin, call center and much fewer are experienced tech. Ask the original Intel employees who are constantly facing lay-off after lay-off and being replaced by foreign inexperienced workers at huge savings to Intel. Google “the layoff intel” to see what I’m talking about. Honeywell is another similar situation, and there are others, if you look.
Another thing to remember is that as more techies from other states (not just CA) move here, it’s getting more and more competitive (among workers, not employers who are loving the surplus of talent) to land the few tech positions found here. Most publicized jobs are entry level, some are mid-level, but very few are experienced high level. Not saying that very experienced tech workers can’t find jobs here, but it’s true that AZ is all about who you know, and the “old boy network” - it’s glaringly obvious in government here, and found in other areas including employment and medical. If you’re connected in some way to the local grand poobahs your prospects are better than if you’re simply just another economic refugee from a more expensive state.
Think about it like this: well paying jobs in AZ are like homes in highly desirable areas. In the event the owner chooses to offer their highly desirable home for sale, the owner can be super particular as they choose among the buyers who are oftentimes pushed beyond their comfort zones, as they compete in the bidding process determined to be the winning bidder and land the house over other similar bidders. AZ employers are loving the influx of economic refugees who are upping the game, and the employers know they don’t have to offer awesome benefits (and they don’t) or high wages (and they don’t) because the transplants are so blinded by the “cheaper” cost of living. Freedom isn’t free.
We are moving back to California. We’ve tried living in several different areas including Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, Tempe and Desert Ridge but each area has been unsatisfying. It’s true that for a Californian the opportunity to buy brand new homes in master planned communities is simply intoxicating. But eventually, one wants to have a life outside of the house. It’s hard here. Unless you have little kids or are retired.
We ended up in new homes because the resale homes out here were kinda gross. That’s mostly because the climate here is hard on the homes, and quite frankly, the older homes are extremely lived in. People who live here spend a great deal of time in their homes for a few reasons - the heat is oppressive and people hibernate, there’s not much to do other than walk around one of the few malls or hike (weather permitting - people are always getting rescued after being overcome by the heat). Also, the wages here don’t support the rapidly increasing cost of living here - so many people don’t have extra funds to pay for much entertainment. But that’s not really a problem, because there’s not much to do unless you like to walk around a festival of some sort - in the cooler months there’s usually some sort of pathetic artisan festival with the same artisans trying to sell their products at each venue. We stopped going to those after we realized that paying $10-15/person for the privilege of walking a few aisles staring at the same overpriced trinkets or food was a waste in more ways than one.
There is an art museum here. It’s boring. They say it’s contemporary art, but honestly Z Gallery is way more interesting. (Get a library culture pass and admission is free)
There is a kid’s science museum downtown- again, get a culture pass and save the admission for the one time you go.
There are some nice libraries here. The main one on Central - the biggest - is overrun with transients trying to escape either the heat of the summer or the cold rainy winters.
Transients begging for food and money is a fairly recent thing. Over the last couple of years it’s increasing rapidly and you see them everywhere. Unlike in California, social services here are sadly lacking. It’s heartbreaking to see these people.
To address social services a little deeper, I think most Californians would be surprised to learn that unemployment benefits in Arizona top out at $240/wk - that’s well below what CA pays. I’ve been told that there’s a new law that forces the unemployed to accept employment at a very low minimum wage after a certain amount of time (x amount of weeks) regardless of how much the unemployed person earned before or unemployment is terminated. Also the state of Arizona does not offer any sort by of disability benefit.
Apartment rents have risen tremendously and the brand new nice apartments in the nicest areas cost about the same as apartments in Sherman Oaks and Woodland Hills. You can still get older apartments at a fairly low cost. But much like the extremely lived in older houses, the older apartments are typically pretty worn. Ok - they’re gross.
I read some complaints about registering cars. It’s not truly cheap here. The car needs an inspection, and there’s a new govt fee that was recently instituted. The locals are in an uproar about it. I will say that the MVD process to register cars and get a license is a pure joy. It’s quick and easy - no appointment needed.
As home prices increase it will be interesting to see if wages increase too. This is a place where, at this point, someone can earn $40k, rent an apt and live fairly well - not luxuriously. Unless someone brings their CA equity windfall, they better have a very secure job, because if they buy a new house and have to rely on AZ wages, well the wages here are just not that great. Sure, some professionals earn in excess of 100k easily. But most jobs out here for regular people are well under that.
Oh, and regarding the man made lake that has been talked about - it’s polluted, smells in the heat and has dead bodies that surface on occasion. But Tempe Town Lake sure is pretty
I could go on, but I think I’ve said enough for now. I probably should have mentioned that Obamacare is a joke out here, nothing like what CA offers - but I won’t get into that.
I think it might be good for this area to get an influx of Californians with liberal demands. While conservative AZ was great at one time, their schools, social safety nets and entertainment is in serious need of improving. Hopefully a nice balance will be reached. Because it is true that many people just don’t see the sense or purpose in living in a place that makes it hard to enjoy life. Lots of people come here, take a breath and then figure out their next move - and leave.
Saying goodbye to my newly constructed really nice house - and saying hello to a decent apartment in a place that offers a more fulfilling life - with a BEACH! I need water after so many years of “dry heat!”
If you want a new build in so cal good luck. Most houses were built in the 60s and are just as worn out as Phx houses. As for the homeless don't think you're escaping them by moving back here.
I get that some people love Ca and find a lot of fault with other states. I'd love to move to Texas because it's so economically healthy but I just don't get a good I'd like to live here feeling when I'm there.
Anyway welcome back to Ca. Hope you find what your looking for. I've always heard moving back is hard and you have to start at the bottom again
If you want a new build in so cal good luck. Most houses were built in the 60s and are just as worn out as Phx houses. As for the homeless don't think you're escaping them by moving back here.
I get that some people love Ca and find a lot of fault with other states. I'd love to move to Texas because it's so economically healthy but I just don't get a good I'd like to live here feeling when I'm there.
Anyway welcome back to Ca. Hope you find what your looking for. I've always heard moving back is hard and you have to start at the bottom again
As my original post states, we are moving into a decent apartment. We will gladly take an apt in a more interesting area, with a better climate, and things to do over a new build that we hibernate in for most months of the year.
Texas is interesting. While there’s no state income tax, the property tax is overwhelming and increases every year. Most transplants find this out the hard way, and end up being unable to afford the prop tax after about 5 yearly increases. Traffic is awful in the Dallas and surrounding suburb areas. Comparable to LA, possibly worse at times. The Dallas area has quite a bit of “things to do” but traffic might make doing them kinda stressful. My suggestion for anybody considering the area is to rent, avoid property taxes. Wages are not as high as in CA, but it’s possible to rent a decent place. There is tons of new apt construction and the rents are similar to LA - not cheap. If you don’t mind the threat (or reality) of tornados, humidity, traffic, terrible social safety nets, then the Dallas area is not too bad. I would take that area over Phoenix in a heartbeat. At least there are things to do.
I'm fascinated to see the conversation here. For what it's worth, I lived in CA for over 35 years, lived in Phoenix for 10, but I wasn't born in either place, so I don't have a homer attitude for either. I get to be objective, ignore troll posting and comment about the actual issues. I know, I know, that means everyone gets to disagree with me, whether they're booster, downer, awake, asleep, or hallucinating. Yay me!
I find it absolutely astonishing that people don't seem to read their own posts with self-awareness or insight. Folks, pay attention to CA-boosters who brag about how many things there are to do. The honest ones will admit that they're doing those things on weekends or holidays. Pay attention to AZ-boosters who love the live-and-let-live attitudes and regulations appropriate for a small population. They don’t talk about the cost of not having public safety nets, or the pressures of those regulations as the population expands. Pay attention to the CA-downers who are irritated by taxes and cost of living. Pay attention to the AZ-downers who hate five months of triple digits from May to October every year.
I’d say mostly, people live in a routine. Grocery stores, entertainment, retail, or the outdoors, mix, repeat. They can do that anywhere - LA, Phoenix, Memphis, Salt Lake City. So people live places for specific reasons. Family’s there. Or their industry is centered there. Or they love something about that area. Or they hate something about other areas. Everyone has a reason why particular places work better. If someone says Phoenix is cheaper than LA, fine, but Jacksonville FL is cheaper than either - if cost is the factor, why stop at Phoenix? It's cheaper if you keep driving east. If someone says California has big water and lots to do, so does Houston or Connecticut, so if that's the factor, why stay in LA? Ah, that's right, it's complicated. But as a society we are intolerant of nuance, so we have to reductio ad absurdum until we're not even talking about the same things.
Maybe it’s part of the human condition that we just don’t know anything other than what we know, and it’s challenging to some people that someone else has a different preference that they don’t understand? Both CA and AZ have room to improve. :-)
I'm fascinated to see the conversation here. For what it's worth, I lived in CA for over 35 years, lived in Phoenix for 10, but I wasn't born in either place, so I don't have a homer attitude for either. I get to be objective, ignore troll posting and comment about the actual issues. I know, I know, that means everyone gets to disagree with me, whether they're booster, downer, awake, asleep, or hallucinating. Yay me!
I find it absolutely astonishing that people don't seem to read their own posts with self-awareness or insight. Folks, pay attention to CA-boosters who brag about how many things there are to do. The honest ones will admit that they're doing those things on weekends or holidays. Pay attention to AZ-boosters who love the live-and-let-live attitudes and regulations appropriate for a small population. They don’t talk about the cost of not having public safety nets, or the pressures of those regulations as the population expands. Pay attention to the CA-downers who are irritated by taxes and cost of living. Pay attention to the AZ-downers who hate five months of triple digits from May to October every year.
I’d say mostly, people live in a routine. Grocery stores, entertainment, retail, or the outdoors, mix, repeat. They can do that anywhere - LA, Phoenix, Memphis, Salt Lake City. So people live places for specific reasons. Family’s there. Or their industry is centered there. Or they love something about that area. Or they hate something about other areas. Everyone has a reason why particular places work better. If someone says Phoenix is cheaper than LA, fine, but Jacksonville FL is cheaper than either - if cost is the factor, why stop at Phoenix? It's cheaper if you keep driving east. If someone says California has big water and lots to do, so does Houston or Connecticut, so if that's the factor, why stay in LA? Ah, that's right, it's complicated. But as a society we are intolerant of nuance, so we have to reductio ad absurdum until we're not even talking about the same things.
Maybe it’s part of the human condition that we just don’t know anything other than what we know, and it’s challenging to some people that someone else has a different preference that they don’t understand? Both CA and AZ have room to improve. :-)
I like what you said. I also consider Nashville and Charlotte, but I like the desert climate better. If traffic wasn't so bad between Ontario and Redlands, a commute to more affordable Palm Desert would be considered. As I said for myself before, I guess I'm "over L.A." and dont find myself doing much of it anymore. So why not move to Phoenix? My friends that have all say they love it.
I admit and agree L.A. has more to do, but again, how many have time and $ to do it? Especially 9-5 wage earners.
I like what you said. I also consider Nashville and Charlotte, but I like the desert climate better. If traffic wasn't so bad between Ontario and Redlands, a commute to more affordable Palm Desert would be considered. As I said for myself before, I guess I'm "over L.A." and dont find myself doing much of it anymore. So why not move to Phoenix? My friends that have all say they love it.
I admit and agree L.A. has more to do, but again, how many have time and $ to do it? Especially 9-5 wage earners.
Yeah, that's always my thinking. If I'm gonna pay cash out of income for the cost of living and taxes every year for the social services, I need to have a frame where I can measure the compensations. In most cases, I feel that the compensation for most people is going to be highly personal, so it's hard to put a number on a place without a hundred asterisks.
All things considered, I can see a lot of arguments for California that have nothing to do with progressive politics, and a lot of arguments for Arizona that don't have anything to do with cheap rent. Neither is perfect, neither is wholly flawed, neither is going to be the best solution for everyone. Having said that, both have a lot of structural problems that would benefit from some creative solutions. I'd like to see the media stop herding people and start talking more honestly about the situation.
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