Flattening the curve is working! (best school districts, tax, military)

[JohnG72]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It shouldn't be that hard to prevent if some parking is blocked off and road signs and broadcasts make the public aware of long delays.

For the average person, yes, the risk of death or serious complications is quite low. However, tens of millions of people have risk factors for worse, including millions who don't know it and probably look robust. Any rapid spread of COVID-19 in a population therefore is a major health threat.

Not bourne out by the stats.

What does appear to be true is that if older people(who seem to be stubborn as hell in defiance of the lockdown orders) and those with pre existing conditions either stay in place, or judiciously practice social distancing, face masks, etc, the death rate will be very low.

Anyway, with people violating the stay in place orders en masse, it appears to be no longer an argument of needing to reopen the economy to now a we can’t actually stop people from violating the orders.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by JohnG72

easily the most activity since the shutdown. Wife and I thought we’d take a drive up PCH. It was packed...like traffic the whole way through Malibu. That’s as far as we got due to the heavy traffic. TONS of motor cycle clubs.

And you weren’t joking about OC:

[url]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ocregister.com/2020/04/25/eager-early-risers-hit-the-beach-in-san-clemente-as-closure-lifts/amp/[/url/}

Looks like the wheels are coming off the whole shutdown order. Like I said earlier, if CA govt keeps this up, the cops won’t be able to enforce the rules. Even if people are still getting it and dying, most people understand it’s only a calculated risk if they are in good heath. Very few die or even get hospitalized unless they already had poor health.

John. I posted on here I was in a 7/11 yesterday, an LAPD officer comes in to use the restroom, not wearing a mask and his partner in the car didn't have on either.

Cops aren't even following the rules. What message does that send?

Originally Posted by goodheathen

That's your inner European talking (and repeating yourself). I haven't heard of a true riot happening in the USA in decades that wasn't race-related.



Fewer people are seeking health services than should be or can. They're 'toughing it out' at home. Building that capacity was smart. Also, I think NYC emergency departments still have problems seeing patients promptly. It's just common sense that, when more than a tiny percentage of the population is ill with a contagious disease that's worse than the common cold, the healthcare system and just about everything else will have trouble functioning well.

If old people don't want their children to suffer professionally and can afford to do so, they should retire early and open up spots on the workplace ladder.

I unquoted many things I agree with, but not the implication that it's time to reopen most of LA.

Inner European, sorry bud I have dual citizenship with Ireland. The last two years I have spent due to family living 2 to 3 months over there. JMO, I prefer it over there to the US, and not just because of this. So I don't have to dig deep to be inner European....


Not every riot in this country has been about race. Never heard of Chicago 7, familiar with the Vietnam era. Just to name one the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago.

If people are desperate they will act out. Race isn't going to matter.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Mike930

Wow...

You realize you’re going to cause a certain poster’s head to explode.

That would make an interesting YouTube, eh?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by nmnita

Cooking at home is better and healthier than curb side pick up or drive through but it it fun to order once once in awhile As for staying in for 30 days, to me that is carrying things way too far, but we all have to approach this in whatever way makes us the most comfortable even if others don't see it the same way. This is no right answer that fits us all.

Originally Posted by nmnita

this goes way deeper than people all staying at home. There are many ways we can get out, do our errands, even take walks and still keep away from others as well as protecting our families. Are you blaming those who were not at home or are you blaming those who choose to go out and contracted the virus?

Nita stop ... this makes 5 and 6 times we have agreed ... as the old saying goes: ‘we have to stop meeting like this ...”

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Mike930

Actually, taking temperatures does work. It’s worked in Asia and I was there to see it. There’s no “health risk” at all. You don’t take everyone’s temperature individually like a doctor’s office. There’s scanners that can do it from a distance. We were coming off a plane in Hong Kong during SARS and they had something that looked like a radar gun checking everyone coming off the plane. []quote]

Okay. I wasn't aware of that version. Go for it, if stores can afford it and the equipment is in stock. I suspect there's a limited supply.

As far as the “negatives”, you list, people have been waiting at restaurants for tables for decades and will continue to do so. You simply limit the number of tables. Whatever the reason for Indoor take out, it exists, almost everywhere. I’ve stood in a restaurant waiting for take out with at least 10 other people in a small area. There’s no reason we couldn’t have been sitting and eating.

And breathing in viral particles. That's the problem. Currently there's little or no research about the virus in enclosed airspace, other than the not-reassuring fact that those particles can be airborne for a few hours. If an employee is infected, the air in a small restaurant might be contagious to anyone in there for more than a few minutes. Also, table service is going to resume, which seems bizarrely reckless to me. I'd say regular temperature checks or true testing for all employees, customers dine using disposable items that they drop in the trash themselves, and mandatory dining closure for airing out and cleaning between meals - or don't reopen indoors. I'd urge the step of getting room dividers (taller than any normal person) and using them to separate groups of diners and also let some parts be nearly uncontaminated so that different sections can be rotated in and out of use.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by JohnG72

How does this counter my argument that most who die are dying from preexisting conditions?

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/down...04152020-1.pdf

Nearly everyone who dies from cv had preexisting health conditions.

John ... not putting my dog in this hunt at the moment, but gotta say: everyone who dies of anything, including old age, has some pre-existing conditions. Pre-existing conditions are kind of a given in most anyone over say about 30 ... maybe younger. We are most of us increasingly held together by duct tape, bailing wire, and prescriptions a good part of our lives. Yet we stagger on often for years and years and years with our wheels barely turning and our intakes and exhausts leaking. If COVID 19 puts the last nail in the tire ... it’s still the ultimate cause of death. The other pre-existing conditions are mostly under protocol treatments which extend life and extend it and extend it.

Call it miserable if you like ... but I have a 15 year old, 110 lb dog right now (that’s about 100 in human years) walking and trotting after his fetching dummy in the yard enjoying the hell out of each day even though his hind end careens around like a hook and ladder truck with no one at the stern wheel. He falls over and gets up best he can all day long. He poops his bed while sleeping a couple times a week and doesn’t even notice. I gotta tell you he and I are having one helluva great time together in his final days. He is an inspiration to me with his ‘effing cheerful enthusiasm.

Old folks are sometimes similarly enjoying their sunset years. If COVID 19 cuts someone short in the 80s or 90s, it can still be a deep loss too soon for them and their loved ones. Sure, not for all old timers ... Alzheimers victims, dementia, painful cancers ... time to go. But applying age and underlying conditions to statistics as if “they were going anyway” misses the quality of many who live in the golden lingering moments.

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

And breathing in viral particles. That's the problem. Currently there's little or no research about the virus in enclosed airspace, other than the not-reassuring fact that those particles can be airborne for a few hours. If an employee is infected, the air in a small restaurant might be contagious to anyone in there for more than a few minutes. Also, table service is going to resume, which seems bizarrely reckless to me. I'd say regular temperature checks or true testing for all employees, customers dine using disposable items that they drop in the trash themselves, and mandatory dining closure for airing out and cleaning between meals - or don't reopen indoors. I'd urge the step of getting room dividers (taller than any normal person) and using them to separate groups of diners and also let some parts be nearly uncontaminated so that different sections can be rotated in and out of use.

The “problem” is that with take out, all the interaction is already happening. The precautions you outline are extreme and unnecessary.

The mortality rate is low and mostly with people with underlying conditions. Those people should stay home. This isn’t the Black Death. Dine-in wouldn’t cause any more cases than take out.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

John. I posted on here I was in a 7/11 yesterday, an LAPD officer comes in to use the restroom, not wearing a mask and his partner in the car didn't have on either.

Cops aren't even following the rules. What message does that send?



Inner European, sorry bud I have dual citizenship with Ireland. The last two years I have spent due to family living 2 to 3 months over there. JMO, I prefer it over there to the US, and not just because of this. So I don't have to dig deep to be inner European....


Not every riot in this country has been about race. Never heard of Chicago 7, familiar with the Vietnam era. Just to name one the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago.

If people are desperate they will act out. Race isn't going to matter.

I just got schooled by an Irish person on American history. I'd only heard of turmoil at the convention, not a big trial later.

I forgot that there are occasionally riots in America after major sporting events, maybe not in a few years.

None of that is like the type of rioting you're projecting. There arguably was some poverty-related rioting during the Great Recession, but it doesn't look like that kind of abject mass poverty will happen soon and due to the virus the government is trying very hard to keep people from living in groups on the street, which is the only realistic way poverty riots would happen. And why would desperately poor people want to loot stores that don't carry items that serve basic needs? This time around everyone has a good TV

[Mike930]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

That would make an interesting YouTube, eh?

I’d pay to watch that.

I’m seriously surprised by the number of people out there. We might see Newsom’s head explode at his briefing tomorrow.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I just got schooled by an Irish person on American history. I'd only heard of turmoil at the convention, not a big trial later.

I forgot that there are occasionally riots in America after major sporting events, maybe not in a few years.

None of that is like the type of rioting you're projecting. There arguably was some poverty-related rioting during the Great Recession, but it doesn't look like that kind of abject mass poverty will happen soon and due to the virus the government is trying very hard to keep people from living in groups on the street, which is the only realistic way poverty riots would happen. And why would desperately poor people want to loot stores that don't carry items that serve basic needs? This time around everyone has a good TV

You can schooled on American history by many people who don't live in the US. Especially in Europe, it's a real eye opener. You see many are better educated. You have to take a series of exams just to graduate high school, unlike here were if they can count to 10, they're good to go.


You would be surprised on how astute many are, and know more than the average American. Even the younger people.

Will you have the time Google "The Chicago Seven".

We don't know what is coming. This isn't a recession, this is going to be a depression. I hope it doesn't happen but if you're paying attention many people are getting frustrated, they can't even get to register for CA EDD.

LOL...again you have the time go on You Tube and look at the LA riots of 1992. They weren't just taking TVs.

Why are store windows boarded up in different areas? The clothing stores on Ventura Blvd, mostly high end stuff...gee wonder why.

For the record I was born in the USA...just like Springsteen. Have dual citizenship due to a parent. And I am grateful to have it, and not just because of this.