Why so many covid 19 cases and deaths in LA County (San Francisco: buy, law)

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by skyway31

If you get a chance to answer any of my questions, that would be appreciated.

I have no idea what percentage of hospitalizations--in L.A. County or any other--are unvaccinated patients. From what I've read, COVID tracker sites don't list that data. And few companies would release data on severity of illness of their employees.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

I have no idea what percentage of hospitalizations--in L.A. County or any other--are unvaccinated patients. From what I've read, COVID tracker sites don't list that data. And few companies would release data on severity of illness of their employees.

It certainly seems reasonable that, when considering disciplinary measures for the entirety of society- as a means of protection- that we'd want to know how many people taking advantage of our best protective tools (vaccines) are getting severely ill. From what we've observed, it seems very rare for vaccinated people to get severely ill. If the overwhelming majority of those getting severely ill are are folks who've elected to decline the best available tools, then discipline for those who HAVE taken advantage of the tools- and for whom data shows are at exceedingly low risk for severe illness- wouldn't figure to make any sense, from either an epidemiological perspective, an ethical perspective, or in consideration of our Constitution.

If those calling for further lockdowns, closures and cancellations have other, mostly separate, more grandiose societal ambitions in mind, they owe it to us to tell all of us.

[goodheathen]

Elsewhere, it's like 80% in hospitals aren't vaccinated. I didn't save a link.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Elsewhere, it's like 80% in hospitals aren't vaccinated. I didn't save a link.

Certainly sounds consistent with what I've heard as well. So, the question is, How much do vaccinated people owe in the form of disciplinary measures imposed on themselves, to "protect" those who've turned down the best tools we have, which are available in abundance and free of charge? This is especially pertinent in light of the fact that we now know the vaccines mostly only serve to protect those receiving them. Obviously, we are seeing in real time fully vaccinated and boosted people- including a couple of Senators- testing positive and potentially transmitting the virus. "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

[goodheathen]

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I sense you're trying to stir up trouble. Let me say that mandates on adults were always meant to twist anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers into compliance.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I sense you're trying to stir up trouble. Let me say that mandates on adults were always meant to twist anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers into compliance.

I'm trying to get answers to questions I recognize as vitally important, yet simultaneously overlooked (or suppressed). While refusing to attempt to answer the questions may appear to be a real fine way of "sticking it" to the person asking the question, actually, it only makes suspicion grow stronger. Why can't those questions be posed and addressed publicly?

[goodheathen]

"What percentage of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated? Given the fact that we know the number of unvaccinated people are SIGNIFICATNLY less than this time last year, what is the evidence that the much smaller number could actually overwhelm the health care system? What is the evidence for the idea that the rate of change and raw numbers we have now actually puts us on a trajectory to overwhelm the health care sytem? Why, after 21 months of this speculation, has nothing been done to improve flex capacity of the system? Has anything been done that directly lead to a decrease in health care workers? "

Those I concede are interesting questions, but 1) they're mostly off-topic 2) very few of them can be answered with more than educated guesses and 3) they and comments elsewhere point to a conspiracy, which is always unlikely and a type of thinking I don't want to feed.

[skyway31]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

"What percentage of the hospitalizations are unvaccinated? Given the fact that we know the number of unvaccinated people are SIGNIFICATNLY less than this time last year, what is the evidence that the much smaller number could actually overwhelm the health care system? What is the evidence for the idea that the rate of change and raw numbers we have now actually puts us on a trajectory to overwhelm the health care sytem? Why, after 21 months of this speculation, has nothing been done to improve flex capacity of the system? Has anything been done that directly lead to a decrease in health care workers? "

Those I concede are interesting questions, but 1) they're mostly off-topic 2) very few of them can be answered with more than educated guesses and 3) they and comments elsewhere point to a conspiracy, which is always unlikely and a type of thinking I don't want to feed.

I suppose in the context of the title and original post of the thread, these may be off-topic. But, it seems as if the thread evolved into one monitoring current Covid conditions in the county. If we view the thread as now being that, the questions are very much on-topic.

I'm no fan of conspiracy theories. However, one of the sad developments of the last couple of years is that literally any sort of inconvenient or disagreeable (to the ascendant ideological group dominating legacy and social media) idea is automatically deemed a "conspiracy theory". The idea that the virus may have accidentally leaked from a lab in Wuhan was long seen as a whacko conspiracy theory which was forbidden from discourse on social media. It's now seen as, at minimum, completely plausible. The idea that there would one day be vaccine mandates was seen as a whacko conspiracy theory back in 2020. The mandates are now very much a reality. And, the idea that cloth masks were little more than (bad) face decorations has long been seen as forbidden, whacko, conspiracy nonsense which was forbidden from being stated. Now, Michael Osterholm has gone on PBS and said as much, as has Leanna Wen on CNN. Both are referring to the lack of RCTs supporting their use, as well as the Bangladesh study which showed they're useless.

So, what "conspiracy" is it that I'm ostensibly hinting at? I'm not quite sure. Perhaps it is the possibility that some are being duplicitous by not distinguishing between vaccinated and unvaccinated hospitalizations. Yes, I think this may be the case. It would be consistent with the approach taken every step along the way over the last 21 months: Offer the scariest, most alarming characterization of the situation- even if it means distorting some facts, and omitting others- so as to influence citizens to be as cautious as possible. I don't think such an approach is automatically, unquestionably best.

[goodheathen]

What, scare the vaccinated into thinking they're at high risk? Because they've not had the third shot? If not that, doesn't make sense and doesn't seem to be scaring us cooperative people. If the government wants to scare, it should mention Long-Covid, which it rarely does....

Anyway, more on topic. I've seen a narrative lately that it wasn't okay to say cloth masks are ineffective. But many people said that (some in obnoxious ways suggesting they didn't believe in better masks) and I never saw any censorship of it. Are months of much cloth usage a reason why COVID infests LA County? Maybe. Even now, I see some people wearing them. Garcetti and his gang completely failed to tell the public to buy medical-grade masks and of course never bothered to procure or mandate N95s for anyone.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Are months of much cloth usage a reason why COVID infests LA County? Maybe.

I think it's due to L.A. County's fully vaccinated rate (2 doses) being only 67.9%. Contrast that with San Francisco County, at 81% or Alameda County at 78%.