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Old 05-25-2020, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Memphis, Tn ~ U.S.A.
2,109 posts, read 4,508,104 times
Reputation: 1635

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
Ok, I live here. I get the texts every day

Tell me WHEN the orders are to be lifted

I want a specific date
They said "give us 2 weeks" back in March
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:29 AM
 
503 posts, read 300,881 times
Reputation: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
d

I live here too (City of Los Angeles).

I'll admit the messaging on this has not been the greatest.

But you know as well as anyone that isn't the way a pandemic works.....the science/data/disease are fluid and a date for reopening will have to be flexible.
I get all that

But my point, or the thrust of my posts, was to point out that the mayor doesn't have the authority to do what he's doing. The main sticking point is the "indefinite" nature of it which, and I'm only a layman when it comes to the law, but that that wouldn't pass constitutional muster. My understanding of things is that every leader of a town, city, state, etc has emergency powers but that they are limited and require specific dates of implementation and a solid scientific basis for them

As an example, I was reading the some health official for Michigan I think overstepped her authority when she imposed orders on people that went beyond the 2-week incubation period for the virus. This was in their state constitution, so may be specific to that state, but the law was you can do this but it has to be confined to something hard and tangible like the incubation period

And I know that the DOJ has told Garcetti that what he's doing is getting out of hand

But we shall see

My concern at this point is that I am getting the sense that people are getting beat down in terms of their morale. If we were hoping for a quick rebound, people rushing out to get back to normal, I wonder if that will be the case. I think they have been kept "down" for too long and are losing a little bit of that spark

But anyway, howdy neighbor !
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:31 AM
 
503 posts, read 300,881 times
Reputation: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
Fair enough. There has always been that tension...been there since the founding. Jefferson vs. Hamilton, etc.
Yep, the eternal tug of war inside America
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:36 AM
 
Location: On the water.
17,207 posts, read 9,644,254 times
Reputation: 14477
Quote:
Originally Posted by (901) View Post
They said "give us 2 weeks" back in March
Do you agree we all know more now about the disease than “back in March”?
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Memphis, Tn ~ U.S.A.
2,109 posts, read 4,508,104 times
Reputation: 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Do you agree we all know more now about the disease than “back in March”?
Yes. We know it's not near as deadly and most of the information we were given was not accurate
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:41 AM
 
503 posts, read 300,881 times
Reputation: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Do you agree we all know more now about the disease than “back in March”?
then they should say as much and quit making people feel like they are intentionally dragging it out, which is how it is starting to feel

And this is apolitical. I know even my most liberal friends are starting to lose it.

IOW our leaders are not leading but playing it by ear

they don't get paid to play it by ear

They get paid to be smarter than us and better informed and, as it turns out, we knew they were full of it early on when they were saying two weeks

If I know as much as them, there is no need for them
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:44 AM
 
Location: On the water.
17,207 posts, read 9,644,254 times
Reputation: 14477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
I get all that

But my point, or the thrust of my posts, was to point out that the mayor doesn't have the authority to do what he's doing. The main sticking point is the "indefinite" nature of it which, and I'm only a layman when it comes to the law, but that that wouldn't pass constitutional muster. My understanding of things is that every leader of a town, city, state, etc has emergency powers but that they are limited and require specific dates of implementation and a solid scientific basis for them

As an example, I was reading the some health official for Michigan I think overstepped her authority when she imposed orders on people that went beyond the 2-week incubation period for the virus. This was in their state constitution, so may be specific to that state, but the law was you can do this but it has to be confined to something hard and tangible like the incubation period

And I know that the DOJ has told Garcetti that what he's doing is getting out of hand

But we shall see

My concern at this point is that I am getting the sense that people are getting beat down in terms of their morale. If we were hoping for a quick rebound, people rushing out to get back to normal, I wonder if that will be the case. I think they have been kept "down" for too long and are losing a little bit of that spark

But anyway, howdy neighbor !
Governors and mayors DO have the authority to shut things down in emergencies. And timelines aren’t limited to dates and clocks but can be well justified by performances and criteria as well. Truth be told, performance Is a far more wise metric than a clock.

Here is local media reporting of LA reopening guidelines ... which show most criteria based on performance:
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/fro...-5-stage-plan/

There certainly is “solid scientific basis” for setting these conditions.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,044 posts, read 2,184,012 times
Reputation: 4863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csonka View Post
I get all that

But my point, or the thrust of my posts, was to point out that the mayor doesn't have the authority to do what he's doing. The main sticking point is the "indefinite" nature of it which, and I'm only a layman when it comes to the law, but that that wouldn't pass constitutional muster. My understanding of things is that every leader of a town, city, state, etc has emergency powers but that they are limited and require specific dates of implementation and a solid scientific basis for them

As an example, I was reading the some health official for Michigan I think overstepped her authority when she imposed orders on people that went beyond the 2-week incubation period for the virus. This was in their state constitution, so may be specific to that state, but the law was you can do this but it has to be confined to something hard and tangible like the incubation period

And I know that the DOJ has told Garcetti that what he's doing is getting out of hand

But we shall see

My concern at this point is that I am getting the sense that people are getting beat down in terms of their morale. If we were hoping for a quick rebound, people rushing out to get back to normal, I wonder if that will be the case. I think they have been kept "down" for too long and are losing a little bit of that spark

But anyway, howdy neighbor !
I am also a layman but the last I heard was County officials were targeting a July 4th reopening assuming the data/science are in alignment. That isn't indefinite.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...us-cases-study
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:49 AM
 
Location: On the water.
17,207 posts, read 9,644,254 times
Reputation: 14477
Quote:
Originally Posted by (901) View Post
I'm not a child anymore. Maybe you should stop thinking like one
A good insult can be fun, eh? Problem is: such needs to be based on a specific example - or else the insult just appears, well, stupid. With this in mind, why don’t you give an example of where and how you feel I [think like a child] in regard to this topic / or my post you are referencing? Then we can discuss whether your insult has merit.
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Old 05-25-2020, 10:59 AM
 
Location: On the water.
17,207 posts, read 9,644,254 times
Reputation: 14477
Quote:
Originally Posted by (901) View Post
Yes. We know it's not near as deadly and most of the information we were given was not accurate
Pretty sure that doesn’t even begin to sum up what additional has been learned.

But taking the second half of your statement to consideration especially highlights the reason for the fluidity of decision-making. If “most of the information we were given was not accurate” then that would explain why the “two weeks” projection would also have been in question. Right?

Now, you might refer back to the first part of your statement to argue the position that: because the disease is “not near as deadly” it makes the whole shut down pointless and moot. The problem with that, though, is that every health authority disagrees with your assessment of CV19’s community impact.
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