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Old 05-23-2020, 07:37 AM
 
Location: So. Cal.
484 posts, read 237,488 times
Reputation: 456

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Government does not have unlimited powers, even during a pandemic emergency.

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/6...irector-ed.pdf

Quote:
There is no pandemic exception to the U.S. Constitution and its Bill of Rights.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:23 AM
 
Location: So Ca
19,405 posts, read 17,528,939 times
Reputation: 17008
The letter to Garcetti came the same day that Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House’s coronavirus response coordinator, singled out Los Angeles as one of three regions where persistent spread remains a significant concern.

Speaking with reporters at the White House, Birx said the Los Angeles metropolitan area, Chicago and Washington, D.C., remain a concern.


https://www.latimes.com/california/s...at-home-orders
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Old 05-23-2020, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
6,516 posts, read 16,054,949 times
Reputation: 9131
The federal government has no business poking its nose into what Los Angeles is doing (or trying to do). The problem is that you can't legislate people's behavior. Ventura County restaurants are now open for dine-in service; I'm sure some L.A. County residents will be crossing the county line to go to dinner this weekend. I just hope people are as cautious as possible (face masks and social distancing), but we'll see how the numbers look in two or three weeks.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,977 posts, read 2,163,492 times
Reputation: 4782
An election year ploy by Trump and his sycophant appointees in the Justice Department.

Last edited by Astral_Weeks; 05-23-2020 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 05-23-2020, 06:56 PM
 
Location: La La Land
1,616 posts, read 2,145,858 times
Reputation: 2831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahayana View Post
Government does not have unlimited powers, even during a pandemic emergency.

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/6...irector-ed.pdf
Reality: The Federal government has no authority or legal jurisdiction over state's rights, especially during an emergency.


This was posted by one, Peter James, on his Facebook page. A coherent explanation based on legal knowledge and not "opinion".

Today’s PSA:
“But my liberties and rights!”
I’m glad you asked about that, because I’m a lawyer. In fact, I’m a lawyer who specifically deals with liberties and rights on a daily basis.
First of all, you have been temporarily inconvenienced, not oppressed. You have not lost a single right. Not one.
Your right to assembly, you say?
Your right to assemble is fully intact. Yes, it is. That right is the right of free association, not the right to gather wherever you feel like it whenever you feel like it. It means that the government can’t prohibit you from joining organizations and expressing your collected views.
And they aren’t. Not one governmental entity out there is saying you can’t be part of Citizens for Pro-Plague Nuttery or yell about how angry you are about wearing a mask.
What they are saying right now is that you can’t hold public gatherings of more than a certain number of people.
The Supreme Court has long upheld “time, place, and manner” restrictions on things like public gatherings. Those don’t infringe upon your rights, according to SCOTUS, if they are within a certain well-defined framework.
Honestly, this is less draconian than quarantines of the past. Most of you don’t know that because we haven’t had to do this in a very long time, like 75 years long time. But back before we had vaccines to a lot of things, if the government so much as suspected you had measles or smallpox, you would get your house sealed up and you didn’t go *anywhere* for two or three weeks while they shoved a few casserole dishes under the door. They’d put a big sign on the door that says “no entry or exit” and if you tried, some burly men would “politely explain” to you why that was not permitted. You didn’t go out for essentials. You didn’t go out for a walk. And they didn’t have Netflix or Instacart back then.
There is no constitutional right to own a business or go to work. Not in there. I’m sorry some of you are suffering, and I feel for you. I legitimately get that some of you are going to lose a lot from this and possibly everything you built. But it’s not a right. You didn’t have that right before, which is why people go bankrupt or get laid off or have their business ventures fail.
Again, you have been temporarily inconvenienced, not oppressed.
But let’s say for the sake of argument, you have had an actual, honest-to-goodness right infringed. You haven’t, but let’s just say you did.
That’s not the end of the story. The government *can* infringe on your rights. Oh yes, they can, and legally so.
How much the government infringes on your rights only changes the level of scrutiny the Court applies. If they are going to fully deprive you of a fundamental right, they need to have a compelling reason to do it and their actions need to be narrowly tailored to the harm being prevented. Public health and safety, especially where it comes to highly infectious diseases, has been upheld as a compelling governmental interest that can override fundamental rights including the right to free exercise of religious beliefs.
And stay-at-home orders are narrowly tailored, too. You can go out to stores for essentials, you can leave your house to go for a walk, you can get food delivered to you. You can go for a drive just to get out if you want. It just closes non-essential businesses that by design put lots of people in a confined space. That is narrowly tailored to the things causing the pandemic to spread the most.
It is not liberty to require human sacrifice to the gods of capitalism. It is not liberty to indirectly kill people. It is not liberty to put people in danger.
You do not have a right to endanger me and my family because you want to have a beer with the fellas at the corner pub.
You do not have a right to commit negligent homicide.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:43 PM
 
199 posts, read 329,988 times
Reputation: 671
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
Reality: The Federal government has no authority or legal jurisdiction over state's rights, especially during an emergency.


This was posted by one, Peter James, on his Facebook page. A coherent explanation based on legal knowledge and not "opinion".

Today’s PSA:
“But my liberties and rights!”
I’m glad you asked about that, because I’m a lawyer. In fact, I’m a lawyer who specifically deals with liberties and rights on a daily basis.
First of all, you have been temporarily inconvenienced, not oppressed. You have not lost a single right. Not one.
Your right to assembly, you say?
Your right to assemble is fully intact. Yes, it is. That right is the right of free association, not the right to gather wherever you feel like it whenever you feel like it. It means that the government can’t prohibit you from joining organizations and expressing your collected views.
And they aren’t. Not one governmental entity out there is saying you can’t be part of Citizens for Pro-Plague Nuttery or yell about how angry you are about wearing a mask.
What they are saying right now is that you can’t hold public gatherings of more than a certain number of people.
The Supreme Court has long upheld “time, place, and manner” restrictions on things like public gatherings. Those don’t infringe upon your rights, according to SCOTUS, if they are within a certain well-defined framework.
Honestly, this is less draconian than quarantines of the past. Most of you don’t know that because we haven’t had to do this in a very long time, like 75 years long time. But back before we had vaccines to a lot of things, if the government so much as suspected you had measles or smallpox, you would get your house sealed up and you didn’t go *anywhere* for two or three weeks while they shoved a few casserole dishes under the door. They’d put a big sign on the door that says “no entry or exit” and if you tried, some burly men would “politely explain” to you why that was not permitted. You didn’t go out for essentials. You didn’t go out for a walk. And they didn’t have Netflix or Instacart back then.
There is no constitutional right to own a business or go to work. Not in there. I’m sorry some of you are suffering, and I feel for you. I legitimately get that some of you are going to lose a lot from this and possibly everything you built. But it’s not a right. You didn’t have that right before, which is why people go bankrupt or get laid off or have their business ventures fail.
Again, you have been temporarily inconvenienced, not oppressed.
But let’s say for the sake of argument, you have had an actual, honest-to-goodness right infringed. You haven’t, but let’s just say you did.
That’s not the end of the story. The government *can* infringe on your rights. Oh yes, they can, and legally so.
How much the government infringes on your rights only changes the level of scrutiny the Court applies. If they are going to fully deprive you of a fundamental right, they need to have a compelling reason to do it and their actions need to be narrowly tailored to the harm being prevented. Public health and safety, especially where it comes to highly infectious diseases, has been upheld as a compelling governmental interest that can override fundamental rights including the right to free exercise of religious beliefs.
And stay-at-home orders are narrowly tailored, too. You can go out to stores for essentials, you can leave your house to go for a walk, you can get food delivered to you. You can go for a drive just to get out if you want. It just closes non-essential businesses that by design put lots of people in a confined space. That is narrowly tailored to the things causing the pandemic to spread the most.
It is not liberty to require human sacrifice to the gods of capitalism. It is not liberty to indirectly kill people. It is not liberty to put people in danger.
You do not have a right to endanger me and my family because you want to have a beer with the fellas at the corner pub.
You do not have a right to commit negligent homicide.
1

So should everyone whos had a cold or flu in public be charged for murder over the entire course of modern history knowing full well that a flu you pass along could kill someone?

Lets not forget the bills being passed currently: HR6666

lets not forget bill gates real Id smart vaccine patent WO2020060606
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Old 05-24-2020, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,441 posts, read 16,954,578 times
Reputation: 26949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
An election year ploy by Trump and his sycophant appointees in the Justice Department.
That's exactly what it is and Trump abdicated his responsibility completely and told each state to do what they wanted, now he has one of Bill Barr's flunkies mail out threatening letters
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Old 05-24-2020, 12:22 AM
 
Location: moved
9,929 posts, read 6,063,346 times
Reputation: 16827
Quote:
Originally Posted by quixotic59 View Post
“But my liberties and rights!”
I’m glad you asked about that, because I’m a lawyer. In fact, I’m a lawyer who specifically deals with liberties and rights on a daily basis.
First of all, you have been temporarily inconvenienced, not oppressed. ...
Your distinction between “inconvenience” and “oppression” is to say the least creative. Likewise your criteria or what does or does not constitute legitimate exercise of authority. But most disturbing is your prioritization of what actually does matter significantly, and what matters only notionally, or rather doesn’t even matter at all. Fortunately for us, not all legal minds share your persuasions.
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Old 05-24-2020, 01:22 AM
 
17,804 posts, read 22,207,014 times
Reputation: 36125
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyCo View Post
The federal government has no business poking its nose into what Los Angeles is doing (or trying to do). The problem is that you can't legislate people's behavior. Ventura County restaurants are now open for dine-in service; I'm sure some L.A. County residents will be crossing the county line to go to dinner this weekend. I just hope people are as cautious as possible (face masks and social distancing), but we'll see how the numbers look in two or three weeks.
You're right you can't legislate people's behavior. But it goes both ways.

Garcetti is out on line and pushed it too far. This Dr Ferrer who has now been "outed", has a Phd in Social Welfare, she is not a medical doctor. Her annual salary(silly me I guessed 250K) my bad her annual salary is $465,411...wow.

People here have had enough. They're done. Politics which has now divided this country(I think on purpose) has many people, not all but too many to not be able to think clearly and they run on emotion.

Both the extreme left and the extreme right not only won't even listen to one another; they're wishing death on one another. it's over the top. Which now has made America even look like an even bigger joke to so many other who just don't get this and for very valid rease

But LA residents regardless of race, sexual orientation, or their political views have had enough. We have people out of work, can get their claims processed with EDD. domestic abuse is on the rise here and other places.

Abuse of power is abuse of power. Both Garcetti and Ferrer have gone too far, younger people especially those in their 20s and 30s who have been impacted are angry and rightly so. I have watched both of them, paid attention, I'm in my 50s now, not sure that happened...LOL..sure flew by like they tell you'

Now I don't like Garcetti, he let homeless problem get worse and worse. I can remember reporters going back in 2017 and beyond on the homeless problem and the reporters saying "calls to Mayor's office were not returned", and this wasn't just one time ,the ds here beyond shameful. I have lived here now more than half my life now . We have eyes and a heart and impossible not to notice the decline he got back in as you know ran virtually unopposed and got in with the lowest percentage of voters in the history in LA history.

I had the honor and opportunity to meet the late Tom Bradley, what we have now. I will not even go there and leave it at that.

The recent updates more and more have creating more and more frustration. Speaking for myself I said be open minded as I was on board. But as time went and of you paid attention contradictions were occurring, bio ones, and it wasn't just me and people I know people but LA residents and rightly so.

Now I assumed Ferrer (my bad) that she was an actual physican and you're raised to listen to the doctor. I remember watching her it was a Saturday afternoon just a few weeks ago my mouth dropped open. It was over the top, was not medical advice, I thought at first is she now the Gov of CA and I missed the memo"...LOL got to have some laughter into all this insanity we're all going through.

But there is nothing much to laugh at, mainly due set off for the 3 month lockdown pushed it too far a reaction here due to already raised anxiety levels of LA residents now looked at as mental abuse. You don't get to "toy" with peoples lives like this not good. Also not too smart to smirk and grin while delivering bad news, people have picked up that one.

History has shown us time and time again you keep pushing people down who are already down, angry, and rightly so they're going to push back.

First thought and I am not the only was in regards to when hearing now August when were in mid May 'do they want a riot, a repeat of 1992 or something worse', because that is the direction we are heading in.

For those who lived here during the 92 riots we don't want a repeat. For those of us who were here we have vivid memories and destruction and heartache and negative economic impact which lasted a few years.

Time moves and now you every once in awhile you get the ones who live here "oh yeah I saw that on TV" OK not quite the same,

My favorite one(and this doesn't happen much) they watched at home from home in Illinois who was 10 at the time,
now 38 has lived in LA about years; nice enough person felt the need to educate me on what occurred...oh my. Thanks I was USC at the time and also worked south of downtown, and had apt, in Hollywood, have a very good understanding of what happened because I was here.

This came up because of the current situation, "oh that was about race that can't happen again''...seriously. My response "you do realize riots occur not just based on race, and for the record the riots in South Central it spread to other parts of the city, and it wasn't just black people." Also people riot for other reasons, didn't want to; look a 3 minute video on YT footage filmed about 3 blocks from where we were.

America today, why know any history, it's never repeats itself, why do any critical thinking on your own, your phone will do that for you,,LOL.

Last edited by seain dublin; 05-24-2020 at 02:49 AM..
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Old 05-24-2020, 01:43 AM
 
Location: moved
9,929 posts, read 6,063,346 times
Reputation: 16827
Everywhere that I go in the Los Angeles area, I see a meek and compliant people; not rioters in the making. Driving around southern LA today, it was impossible to find an establishment that had a restroom open to the public; not a gas station, big-box stores or convenience stores... certainly not restaurants. Driving around, I found sidewalks empty, streets largely devoid of traffic, parking lots nearly deserted. Even the beaches - those redoubtable expanses of youthful exuberance and thumbing of the nose at "the man" - were sparse. Parking lots adjacent to the beaches are closed. Does that mean that curbside parking away from the beach is overflowing? Nope! Choice curbside spots, normally the stuff of fierce competition among drivers waiting to swoop-in, are there for the taking.

If the locals are truly fed-up, their grumbling is private and furtive. I don't see any groundswell of pent-up frustration. I only see a populace that cowers in fear, dutifully wears its masks, and does exactly as it's told.
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