Rat out private gatherings (vouchers, legally, buses)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

You joined the mob against me? What practical suggestions have any of you offered anywhere? You want perpetual half-shut society and damaged health in tens of thousands?

Repeat offenders of some of the worst behavior (partying, trying to enter stores unmasked) wouldn't be very common, and most people would be deterred if they knew others were being significantly punished. I say 1000 people at home with ankle monitoring would happen. The system could easily handle that. There's less real crime than usual.

What practical suggestions have YOU offered anywhere? You’ve been flooding these forums with your ideas from the gulags ...

Finding your “suggestions” nuts doesn’t mean anybody “wants a perpetual half-shut society and damaged health.” Nobody does.

Think creatively. Incentivize compliance.

Or, simply write tickets like for jaywalking and earn some revenue if that’s as creative as you can get.

But ankle-monitors? ‘Effing nuts.

[alliance]

I wonder if the OP would turn in his own children to the SS if they were found to be violating these covenants. For the good of society, I sure as hell hope so. They’d understand, no doubt, as they’re hauled away, never to be seen or heard from again.

[JumpingRoo]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

You're awful. Parking restrictions are a completely legal way to control situations. Again, you are a threat to society that I hope the government will find a way to punish.

Prime example right here of what happens when you worship the state and the corporate press.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

What practical suggestions have YOU offered anywhere? You’ve been flooding these forums with your ideas from the gulags ...

Finding your “suggestions” nuts doesn’t mean anybody “wants a perpetual half-shut society and damaged health.” Nobody does.

Think creatively. Incentivize compliance.

Or, simply write tickets like for jaywalking and earn some revenue if that’s as creative as you can get.

But ankle-monitors? ‘Effing nuts.

Criminals are removed from circulation. That's what law enforcement does. No techniques I'm suggesting are unheard of in democracies. Even locking up people for threats to public health happens - enforced quarantine - which would be the legal grounds for ankle monitors on people who are very social indoors without wearing masks; it's possible they are or soon will be infected.

I already suggested distracting young people into compliance by hiring them. Other than that, there probably are no incentives to offer. Young people do not voluntarily stop partying (nor do older party-hounds).

You don't like ratting, coercion, harsh punishments or limits on normal adult freedoms, but it's either that or failure for at least half another year. California's government already took the most extreme step, making mixed-household private gatherings vaguely illegal.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Criminals are removed from circulation. That's what law enforcement does. No techniques I'm suggesting are unheard of in democracies. Even locking up people for threats to public health happens - enforced quarantine - which would be the legal grounds for ankle monitors on people who are very social indoors without wearing masks; it's possible they are or soon will be infected.

I already suggested distracting young people into compliance by hiring them. Other than that, there probably are no incentives to offer. Young people do not voluntarily stop partying (nor do older party-hounds).

You don't like ratting, coercion, harsh punishments or limits on normal adult freedoms, but it's either that or failure for at least half another year. California's government already took the most extreme step, making mixed-household private gatherings vaguely illegal.

You clearly can’t grasp what I “don’t like” or do like. You’re just lost and adrift in your belief that you alone can see right from wrong and what needs to be done. Over the top, brotherman.

Example among other things: the issue of facemasking and partying and such has become political / ideological identity war. The more you try to dominate the other side by draconian force - the worse the polarization becomes. Fiercely so.

The problem doesn't lie with the offenders / compliers. The problem lies - wholly - with leadership. You want to rant and rail and finger-point and be morally superior? You’ll make the situation worse.

If you truly believe you are a superior observer and thinker, apply your brilliance to public relations messaging ... and how to turn the screws on the leadership failures.

[Tulemutt]

Meanwhile, in support of the concern goodheathen is losing sleep over:

Several attendees of a Fourth of July party at Torch Lake Sandbar in northern Michigan tested positive for COVID-19, while more than 40 cases in Saline, Michigan, are linked to a holiday house party. . https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...an/5427985002/

Michigan Governor Whitmer has taken both state and national heat - a LOT of heat - for her state shutdown Executive Orders these past months. From Trump, and on down to the Trumper minions on the Michigan streets. She’s even been attacked numerous times in this California forum. Specific attacks even here have referred to her early (since lifted) restrictions on recreational boating ... as well as travel to vacation homes (and the parties / gatherings that go with a lot of that in Michigan when the harsh winters melt away finally into summer fun at the lakes).

Here ya go, Whitmer haters: she lifted the restrictions. 40 people now infected from one house party. And a handful from an outdoor, fresh air boating bash. And where did these victims go after becoming unknowingly infected? Home to cities and towns and workplaces and stores.

Because those who tested positive could not identify all potential contacts for exposure, the health department went public to alert those who attended the event.

Oh.

Publish the many such examples of infections resulting from public group exposures. Even church attendance. Choir practice. Feature every example of cocky defiance that resulted in sickness and death. Flood social media with verifiable links to the results of these behaviors.

Leave the ankle bracelets out of the equation.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Meanwhile, in support of the concern goodheathen is losing sleep over:



Michigan Governor Whitmer has taken both state and national heat - a LOT of heat - for her state shutdown Executive Orders these past months. From Trump, and on down to the Trumper minions on the Michigan streets. She’s even been attacked numerous times in this California forum. Specific attacks even here have referred to her early (since lifted) restrictions on recreational boating ... as well as travel to vacation homes (and the parties / gatherings that go with a lot of that in Michigan when the harsh winters melt away finally into summer fun at the lakes).

Here ya go, Whitmer haters: she lifted the restrictions. 40 people now infected from one house party. And a handful from an outdoor, fresh air boating bash. And where did these victims go after becoming unknowingly infected? Home to cities and towns and workplaces and stores.



Oh.

Publish the many such examples of infections resulting from public group exposures. Even church attendance. Choir practice. Feature every example of cocky defiance that resulted in sickness and death. Flood social media with verifiable links to the results of these behaviors.

Leave the ankle bracelets out of the equation.

It's not easy to publicize that. Most people only watch a little bit of the news and barely use social media. Furthermore, much of it has been exposed for months, and here we are. Some people tune it out as media hype. I say keep doing it, but (per the cliche about insanity) don't expect noticeably different results.

Ankle monitoring would get instant publicity.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You clearly can’t grasp what I “don’t like” or do like. You’re just lost and adrift in your belief that you alone can see right from wrong and what needs to be done. Over the top, brotherman.

Example among other things: the issue of facemasking and partying and such has become political / ideological identity war. The more you try to dominate the other side by draconian force - the worse the polarization becomes. Fiercely so.

The problem doesn't lie with the offenders / compliers. The problem lies - wholly - with leadership. You want to rant and rail and finger-point and be morally superior? You’ll make the situation worse.

If you truly believe you are a superior observer and thinker, apply your brilliance to public relations messaging ... and how to turn the screws on the leadership failures.

Of course some problem is the offenders themselves. Many of them know what they're doing is wrong and don't care. They know some will be caught and publicized, they don't think they will be caught, and even if they are, what tangible consequences will there be?

The good news to me is I don't think partying has been politicized much . There are right-wing covidiots and nominally left-wing covidiots, and most people dislike them.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It's not easy to publicize that. Most people only watch a little bit of the news and barely use social media. Furthermore, much of it has been exposed for months, and here we are. Some people tune it out as media hype. I say keep doing it, but (per the cliche about insanity) don't expect noticeably different results.

No idea where you get this opinion ... because actually:

According to 2011 Pew Research data, nearly 80% of American adults are online and nearly 60% of them use social networking sites. Through the use of social media platforms, such as Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, and WhatsApp, users can communicate with their peers, strangers and online content.

Social media as a news source - Wikipedia

And:

According to the Pew Research Center, which is an internet research company, 62% of adults in the United States get news from social media., as well as three-fourths who say they get news from e-mail or social media sites updates, according to a report published by CNN.

Social media as a news source - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by goodheathen

...
Ankle monitoring would get instant publicity.
.

It sure would. All the wrong kind. And create a backlash like you’ve never seen even with racial issues.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

No idea where you get this opinion ... because actually:

I might have underestimated social media usage, but still most of those people are not heavy users and don't see much more than headlines. The media is going to make headlines out of what it wants to, not what you and I think should be featured. Even Los Angeles news cuts away from Garcetti briefings and seldom reports about specific local outbreaks. Also, as I said, that news apparently has not changed behavior.

And:




It sure would. All the wrong kind. And create a backlash like you’ve never seen even with racial issues.

I disagree. Who, other than big party people and extreme anti-government types, has any sympathy for hosts of big private parties during the pandemic? Comments toward them are vicious on social media.


If I'm right on both points, then doesn't that leave my plan as the only hope in the near future?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I might have underestimated social media usage, but still most of those people are not heavy users and don't see much more than headlines. The media is going to make headlines out of what it wants to, not what you and I think should be featured. Even Los Angeles news cuts away from Garcetti briefings and seldom reports about specific local outbreaks. Also, as I said, that news apparently has not changed behavior.



I disagree. Who, other than big party people and extreme anti-government types, has any sympathy for hosts of big private parties during the pandemic? Comments toward them are vicious on social media.


If I'm right on both points, then doesn't that leave my plan as the only hope in the near future?

No. You’re not right ... on either point.

You have no idea how much social media use is common. You’re obsessed with this topic and making crap up to fit your “theories”. My theory is you would benefit from diversifying your hobby here.