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Old 05-10-2008, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,146 posts, read 38,126,617 times
Reputation: 3813

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmarski View Post
Somebody "in the know." You know prisons are just Universities for crime, and that CA uses its citizens of the lower echelons of society to provide middle class jobs for people who support the status quo. "Three strikes" is not only sad; it's criminal.
Three strikes and you are out is an excellent law IMHO------for Felonies.

BTW: I look like a cross between an ELF terrorist and a Redneck; had a few run ins with 'the Man' (never been arrested though)-------that stated, there are plenty of times when I have called the local police to investigate suspicious activity.
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Old 05-10-2008, 09:17 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,527 posts, read 16,148,772 times
Reputation: 10450
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTGJR View Post
I'll throw this out as food for thought as I firmly believe that this was when not only California, but the entire nation started the downhill slide.
Sad to agree with you but for different reasons. Mine: drugs, entitlements, illegal immigration, US hegemony, "Special Interests" and "Corporate America" taking over our political system and usurping the voters.

This topic is distasteful to me. I don't want to discuss all of what's wrong with America because I just get in a foul mood and doing that doesn't do anything to solve the problem.

Tell me how many people enthusiastically support one of the presidential candidates, compared to those who are merely voting for the least of the evils. I rest my case.
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Old 05-10-2008, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,345 posts, read 84,756,882 times
Reputation: 17581
A lot of things changed in America in the 1960s.

The JFK assassination seems to me to be a turning point time when the change started (sure it was many things, and things probably really never "started" as much as they continued and magnified).

Excusing my late night grammar, the difference between the 1950s and the 1960s seems to me to be a lot more than the differences between the 60s and 70s or 70s and 80s or 80s and 90s, etc.

A good illustration of the clash (1950s vs 1960s/1970s):

http://www.morbid-curiosity.com/486c2b80.jpg (broken link)
(image not protected by copyright)
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Old 05-10-2008, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Major Metro
1,083 posts, read 2,129,204 times
Reputation: 360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
This topic is distasteful to me. I don't want to discuss all of what's wrong with America because I just get in a foul mood and doing that doesn't do anything to solve the problem.
Yep, this is a depressing topic. What's even more depressing is that 10-20 years from now we will look back on these years as the better years just like we do every decade/generation.
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:59 AM
 
252 posts, read 301,460 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTGJR View Post
I\'ll throw this out as food for thought as I firmly believe that this was when not only California, but the entire nation started the downhill slide. Many/most won\'t recall the pre-70\'s days when Doctors, Lawyers and Pharmaceutical companies could not advertise. I attribute a huge degree of the decline in medical/health insurance and the rise of said both to these three. Further, until Lawyers were allowed to advertise their services people actually assumed a little responsibility for their lives. Now, we stub a toe on the sidewalk and sue the city for $1M.

hard alcohol and tobacco have proven to be dangerous and both lost their advertising privileges years ago. Let\'s roll back the clock on doctors, lawyers and the pharmaceutical cos as well.

Restless bowl syndrome? Dude, you have the dreaded "D." Eat some fiber!
Very few are aware of what you just said and I agree! Most people have no idea that Lawyers and Pharma did not advertise--those were much better days...
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Old 05-11-2008, 07:22 AM
 
1,714 posts, read 5,544,721 times
Reputation: 688
Sprawl, traffic, smog, illegal aliens, violence... These aren't unique to Los Angeles. They are problems faced by every city nationwide and worldwide. If LA has more of some of them, why should we be surprised? It's a bigger city.

It's really easy to get caught up in negativity, but ultimately not rewarding. JMHO
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Old 05-11-2008, 10:23 AM
 
Location: SoCal
14,527 posts, read 16,148,772 times
Reputation: 10450
Quote:
Originally Posted by prim2007 View Post
Yep, this is a depressing topic. What's even more depressing is that 10-20 years from now we will look back on these years as the better years just like we do every decade/generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timelesschild View Post
It's really easy to get caught up in negativity, but ultimately not rewarding. JMHO
The real problem is that talking about it solves nothing, and for that matter there's little that any of us can do to solve the problem since it would require bigger changes than any single person or modestly sized group could hope to accomplish. You'd have to have everybody working on solving the problem, and that isn't going to happen. Actually, the problem is probably ultimately caused by too many people and there's no way to fix that short of doing a lot of killing, an obviously impractical solution.

So we're left left with three alternatives:

1. Complain about it.

2. Quit complaining and lump it.

3. Move.

I don't really complain about it much anymore, although obviously I'm willing to analyze it. I'm doing #3, moving away in 2-4 years when I retire.

There's really a lot of good in Los Angeles. It's just that without the need to further my career anymore, the scale tips to favor my relocation.
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Old 05-11-2008, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Concrete Jungle
240 posts, read 1,347,127 times
Reputation: 194
[quote=the middle class is disappearing... ![/QUOTE]

In my opinion, this quote covers much of the problem here. Middle class status requires a much higher income in Southern California than it does almost anywhere else in the US. However, new people come here daily competing for jobs, even jobs that require a higher education and technical skills, so income does not rise as fast as the higher cost of living.

Also, as others have pointed out, The Three Strikes Law, is overly inclusive and is housing many inmates as Three Strikers when their third strike wasn't even for a crime of violence. In fact, some third strikes are actually for petty thefts that have been made into a felony because of a prior petty theft. We, as California tax payers, pay our taxes to house and provide medical care to these inmates for the rest of their natural lives, while many of us cannot even afford to pay for our own health care.

In my opinion, firefighers and police officers earn every cent of their pay, especially when I consider how much danger they are exposed to in performing their job duties. I am always extremely sad when I hear about the loss of a firefigher or police officer or of any severe disability that was caused by simply showing up for work and performing their job duties.

Also, in my opinion, many teachers are underappreciated and some are underpaid. However, unfortunately, because of the state's current budget shortfall, many jobs which are needed are now being cut.

We just experienced a prolonged "writers strike" that essentially shut down one of the largest tax paying industries in this local area, as well as in the entire state. Thus, it isn't surprising that the state and local governments are experiencing shortfalls right now.

What is surprising to me, however, is that the local government leaders have not learned from this strike how important this industry is to our local economy and therefore immediately initiated "tax incenstives" similar to what New York, New Mexico and other states are offering the movie and television industries who are lobbying this industry very hard to take our jobs away. Just this week I heard that New York was successful in luring "Ugly Betty" away from LA to New York. There went a lot of middle class jobs right there and the taxes that those people would have paid to the city and state.

Also, we really do need some type of Immigration reform, although, I understand that this is not the proper place to discuss this issue, I only mention it because this problem is causing our local economies a lot of extra strain and depriving the local and state government from receivng needed tax dollars from this group that could be paid if reforms were made.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,527 posts, read 16,148,772 times
Reputation: 10450
I think another problem is that the taxpayers are just getting sucked dry with excessive taxes. Perhaps the teachers and police deserve what they're being paid, perhaps they even deserve more, but we taxpayers are being sucked dry by the taxes we already pay now.

The city, county and state have got to realize that we taxpayers can't afford any more taxes then we are already paying. The government has got to find ways to get along on their present budgets. If there isn't enough money then government will just have to be more efficient and quit wasting money on nonproductive uses.

The government can't just keep raising taxes without limit. It's got to stop somewhere, and many of us are already at the breaking point. That's why so many businesses have left the state (taking jobs with them I might add) and in many cases why so many people are becoming disenchanted with California and moving to less expensive areas.

There's got to be an end to the ever increasing tax burden.
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Old 05-11-2008, 02:50 PM
 
385 posts, read 1,445,239 times
Reputation: 204
The biggest problem with police in California is the police themselves. About thirty years ago, the police were over-reaching their authority on many fronts. At that time, educated police were more of the exception especially for those in power positions. Many of those in command really didn't have the wherewithall to rein in their problem children or envision a different form of policing (i.e. community policiing, etc.) to accomodate a growing, diverse population.

Instead they became defensive and more firmly entrenched in their old ways.The people started reacting by suing the police for various misdeeds. The police reacted by becoming more defensive and circled their wagons. A few exceptional leaders were able to see the future and began to implement change (and legislation followed to include harsher penalties for drunk driving and spousal battery). Many, however, stood by and became micromanagers in the hope that they could witness and control every event in the field in hopes of avoiding problem(s). Thus began the era of the fence sitting managers who went to work daily praying that nothing "serious" happened on their watch. The problem is that "nothing happened" good or bad, either. I think to the OP's point, he/she was referring to cops of the past in California in many ways.

Many police were and are educated; many were frowned upon by their own for years for having any education beyond high school. Most of these agencies have changed because they had to. They took women only because they had to; they took short men only because they had to; they took people of color only because they had to. That is a legacy to me that is hard to live down and I think they deserve criticism for that.
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