LAPD Still Won't Get Vaccinated (airports, ordinance, venue)

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

$5 is equivalent to $150 today. $150 fine is nothing compared to being fired for not getting a covid shot.

You guys keep avoiding the real point. Massachusetts or any state could have done more than choose to impose a $150.00 fine. The court's opinion basically gave them carte blanche when it came to imposing a penalty for non-compliance. You probably understand that. Its just a question of trying to disagree even though the law is clearly against your position.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by joosoon

We're talking about unionized employees who work under a contract. You don't get to just change the rules at whim and skip the bargaining. It's not just LA where this is happening. It's a labor issue first.


A more sensible approach would be to incentivize vaccinations. Besides that, LAPD is over 70% covered now. There's a point where demanding 100% is unrealistic. There are going to be legitimate medical exemptions within those numbers. The original window for filing any exemption was very short, thus all the resistance. That's part of their lawsuit. It's a fair point.

I've belonged to unions they don't trump the law, otherwise they would carve out all sorts of exceptions for themselves. And this thing about "legitimate medical exemptions", the only legitimate medical exemptions are severe (anaphylactic) reaction to a previous dose of the vaccine, or an allergy to PEG (propylene glycol) I really doubt if every many cops will qualify for a medical exemption.

In 2017 the LAPD police union was begging for more Hep A vaccine, which makes this anti-vax campaign look more political than anything else.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

I'd go this route:

No vax, no problem but if you get Covid/die from it.............NO BENEFITS! No healthcare related to it, no death benefits for your family.

That would have to go through collective bargaining. The death and health benefits you receive are contractual. I guess you aren’t aware of that?

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Excerpt from a letter to the L.A. Times yesterday:

"In California, the average police officer salary is almost $105,000, and officers are not required to have a college degree.

In Los Angeles, pensions top out at 90% of final average salary at 33 years of service. If police officers don't want to serve and safeguard by getting vaccinated against COVID-19, they should either quit or be fired. Let others consider this lucrative career and pension without accumulating a huge college debt.

-Carla Bollinger, Newbury Park"

The LAPD were serving and safeguarding their city throughout the pandemic prior to there being a vaccine. How is now being vaccinated serving and safeguarding? You people make no sense?

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by markg91359

You guys keep avoiding the real point. Massachusetts or any state could have done more than choose to impose a $150.00 fine. The court's opinion basically gave them carte blanche when it came to imposing a penalty for non-compliance. You probably understand that. Its just a question of trying to disagree even though the law is clearly against your position.

Can you cite where the Supreme Court has given states and localities carte Blanche in mandating a covid shot? Such mandates are still required to be reasonable. Get a shot or be fired without following any of the science or philosophical objections isn’t reasonable to me. We no longer have sovereignty over our bodies?

[markg91359]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

Can you cite where the Supreme Court has given states and localities carte Blanche in mandating a covid shot? Such mandates are still required to be reasonable. Get a shot or be fired without following any of the science or philosophical objections isn’t reasonable to me. We no longer have sovereignty over our bodies?

I cited Jacobson and Zucht in a prior post. One gives localities the right to mandate vaccination for all citizens. The other specifically does for school children. There are even more cases decided on a statewide level I could cite if I wanted too.

I really wish you would stop bleating about "sovereignty over your own body". The courts say that a vaccination can be mandated under the state's power to regulate the health, welfare, and safety of its citizens. If you haven't picked up on the fact that's the law (whether you like it or not) you've convinced me you have an inability to read.

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf

The LAPD were serving and safeguarding their city throughout the pandemic prior to there being a vaccine. How is now being vaccinated serving and safeguarding? You people make no sense?

Choosing to refuse a new safety method is in in effect refusing to safeguard. People don't get a free pass for previous good behavior. "But officer, I wasn't speeding last month!"

Move on to again disingenuously implying that vaccinated people are at zero risk from the unvaccinated and ignoring the risk from unvaccinated people to each other and the ramifications of that to the workforce?

[goodheathen]

Just saying, "natural immunity" is like refusing to get X-rayed at a doctor's office due to claiming without evidence to have been x-rayed elsewhere recently. And duplicate x-rays actually has more negatives than anyone has demonstrated from 'extra' antibodies.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by markg91359

I cited Jacobson and Zucht in a prior post. One gives localities the right to mandate vaccination for all citizens. The other specifically does for school children. There are even more cases decided on a statewide level I could cite if I wanted too.

I really wish you would stop bleating about "sovereignty over your own body". The courts say that a vaccination can be mandated under the state's power to regulate the health, welfare, and safety of its citizens. If you haven't picked up on the fact that's the law (whether you like it or not) you've convinced me you have an inability to read.

So you are claiming in Jacobson vs Massachusetts federal laws that allow for vaccine exemptions for employees based on religious beliefs do not need to be followed? That would be Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the disability status under Title one of the Americans with Disabilities Act where the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission confirm these exemptions in May of 2021. Employers must comply with the reasonable accommodation provisions of the ADA and Title seven of the Civil Rights Act of 64 and other EEO considerations, the commission said in a statement.

So we do not have sovereignty over our own bodies? The courts have been explicit where in 1965 the use of contraceptives in Griswold versus Connecticut, Loving vs Virginia, 1967, you can marry anyone regardless of race. Roe vs Wade, you’re free to abort a baby in the first trimester. You may not be subjected to experimental drugs or therapies without your consent, even if you’re in the military, United States vs Stanley, 1987. You’re allowed to refuse medical treatment, including interventions that may save your life, Cruzan vs director, Missouri Department of Health, 1990. You’re allowed to have sexual relations with people of the same sex Lawrence vs. Texas, 2003. You’re allowed to marry them. Oprah, Cofell vs Hodges, 2015. These cases clearly show in the modern era of the last half century explicitly the right of individuals to their own bodies. Yes, I will bleat out “sovereignty of your own body” because there is Supreme Court precedent of sovereignty over you body.”

You’re attempting to push an argument that what employers are doing to their employees is a slam dunk based off Jacobson vs Massachusetts. It’s not.

[Nyfinestbxtf]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

Just saying, "natural immunity" is like refusing to get X-rayed at a doctor's office due to claiming without evidence to have been x-rayed elsewhere recently. And duplicate x-rays actually has more negatives than anyone has demonstrated from 'extra' antibodies.

You’re analogy makes zero sense. You do understand what natural immunity is where there are studies showing natural immunity is better than the vaccine? So even if you already have antibodies to covid, get vaccinated so that you can have more antibodies? Well, by that logic, shouldn’t someone who is vaccinated attempt to get infected so that they too have more antibodies?