LAPD Still Won't Get Vaccinated (Los Angeles: bus, racist, snow)

[joosoon]

It's also really naive to think a major city government can withstand a 20% reduction in staffing all around. We'll see what happens December 18th, but I think those hoping for a mass firing are going to be sorely disappointed. The city already caved once on the extension of filing for exemptions. And I'll say this once more: look at LASD right now sitting at like 40% vaccinated and leadership saying hard pass on enforcing the mandate. The city of LA would be stupid to go ballistic over 80% coverage.


If I'm wrong, I'll admit it when it happens.

[Finper]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Article? Pretty sure that's an op-ed. Unless of course the LAT really has sunk to the lowest possible level by allowing their writers to call people "pandejos" (very clever btw) and pretend it's objective journalism.


They only thing that editorial shows me is that I'm right; the reaction is just as political as the thing which the reactionaries are reacting to in the first place. Like I said, everything is political. Who cares? It doesn't change the dynamic of an overly aggressive vaccination campaign nor alter the wrongness and bad timing of this mandate. We'll see how tough the city really wants to play after December 18th.

Unbelievable……. I’m so glad I’m out of that so called state

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Joe Pampas

LAPD, police officers are civilians. They are not military. You’re comparing apples to oranges.

-Nyfinestbxtf

If you can read more carefully, I didn’t compare to military. I specifically identified that “military AND public service employees” …

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by joosoon

You're thinking too linearly and literally here.

The claim was afterall, that politics was the grand motivator for those fighting the mandate. I've yet to see a shred of evidence about this alleged fact. But it's unimportant, really. The bottom line is that the only accepted exemptions are medical and religious. So whether or not the true motives of every person filing for an exemption is political rather than for those two reasons, it's immaterial to the discussion. It's just a bunch of guessing and op-eds offered as proof.



But this is a labor issue. This is contract language territory and there are two equal parties in the negotiation; the city and the city employees. Nobody has to just prostrate themselves in front of the other and be happy about it. That's not how things work. And again, specifically, if we're going to single out LAPD here (I realize that's the thread topic), it's worth noting that according to the latest numbers the police department have a compliance rate just slightly above that of city employees overall (78% vs. 77%). So why all the focus on the cops? THAT'S politics. Just look at some of the comments on this thread about them being "whiny" and unappreciative of their job yadda-yadda.



Everything is political in this battle. You'd have to be blind not to see it.

Um no, again. It’s not “unimportant.” Nor is it “immaterial to this discussion.”

Pretty much every nation’s leadership in the world agrees we are all in a crisis. Whether the degree of crisis warrants the levels of reaction, edicts, mandates et al will be debated for years and years after the dust is settled or at least under controlled management. Crises demand management. Management isn’t always correct. But management MUST be applied. In service forces, whether military or public community service, command structures cannot function in chaos and protest. It’s not one bit “immaterial” to MY discussion to make this point.

And the comments in this thread made by me about the cops being whiny - aren’t *political*. I am making a point about how a-politically crises must be managed in order to succeed.

Originally Posted by joosoon

It's also really naive to think a major city government can withstand a 20% reduction in staffing all around. We'll see what happens December 18th, but I think those hoping for a mass firing are going to be sorely disappointed. The city already caved once on the extension of filing for exemptions. And I'll say this once more: look at LASD right now sitting at like 40% vaccinated and leadership saying hard pass on enforcing the mandate. The city of LA would be stupid to go ballistic over 80% coverage.


If I'm wrong, I'll admit it when it happens.

Heh. Quite good arguments have been advanced in this thread that point out that there won’t be any “20% loss” of personnel … and that some loss CAN be manageable.

[goodheathen]

It's possible 20% of firefighters won't be working for LAFD anymore - but I think the city can gradually replace enough of them.

Cops are the most public department of city employees and possibly have more interaction with the typical citizen than any other municipal employees. Those are reasons for the focus on getting them vaccinated.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

It’s not one bit “immaterial” to MY discussion to make this point.

There's no use debating this beyond what's been said already. We disagree. It's ok.


But the statement above is funny to me. You probably didn't intend it to come off the way I'm reading it but in any case, it made me laugh.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It's possible 20% of firefighters won't be working for LAFD anymore - but I think the city can gradually replace enough of them.

Harder than you think but that's ok too.
If the city chooses the most fascist route and leaves a hole that big in fire protection or law enforcement, every one of them should be recalled for obscene mismanagement. We'll have to wait a month to know.

Cops are the most public department of city employees and possibly have more interaction with the typical citizen than any other municipal employees. Those are reasons for the focus on getting them vaccinated.

You indicated your personal target was 80% compliance and the cops are basically there, with city employees overall close behind. Here's you literally saying it two days ago:

Originally Posted by goodheathen

I want at least 80% of city employees vaccinated. That should make serious workplace outbreaks unlikely and maybe have a helpful preventative spillover into the community.

[goodheathen]

That doesn't mean let non-compliant people off the hook. That just means not pushing vaccination as hard, effort that someone is paying for.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by goodheathen

It's possible 20% of firefighters won't be working for LAFD anymore - but I think the city can gradually replace enough of them.

Cops are the most public department of city employees and possibly have more interaction with the typical citizen than any other municipal employees. Those are reasons for the focus on getting them vaccinated.

they'll manage just fine, if necessary they will get mutual aid from other fire departments or call in Cal Fire

[goodheathen]

It couldn't be mutual, and I wonder if other fire departments are having the same problem. Some cities within LA County haven't set vaccine deadlines yet and some might not have mandates at all.

As for any more progress, this feels relevant. Somebody needs to examine how anti-vaccine movements form within organizations.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/marine-co...133400943.html