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The vaccine doesn’t prevent covid or the spread of covid. That’s why a vaccine mandate is absurd. Is the vaccine more effective at preventing hospitalization than having natural immunity? What are the adverse affects of the vaccine on those who have been previously infected with covid. The survival rate of being infected with covid is well above 99%. 76% of those who can receive the vaccine have and how many of the remaining 24% have natural immunity. Cherry picking some hospitals with high occupancy rates is not a justifiable reason for a covid shot mandate.
I just can’t understand how there are people who just can’t accept that there are others who refuse to do something against their will. If you want the jab, get the jab. You’re protected? Leave it as that.
Read this article from the Cleveland Clinic which is one of the finest medical facilities in this country. The article details how the vaccine (1) prevents actual disease; and (2) that while someone who gets a vaccine can spread covid they will spread it at a lesser rate than someone who has not been vaccinated.
No one in their right mind could argue that someone ought to run the risk of being sick with Covid just so they can develop natural immunity. The risk of both death and serious permanent effects from the disease are too high.
Your numbers are wrong too. Johns Hopkins Covid statistics indicate that 42,500,000 people have had Covid in the USA. Out of those 42,500,000, six hundred eighty thousand have died. If we do the math, that's one out of 61 people who catch the disease die from it. That's close to 2 out of every hundred people. So approximately 2% of people in the USA who catch covid die from it. By way of comparison no other infectious disease has killed that many people since the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919. A one in fifty or one in sixty chance of dying from a disease is nothing to make light of. Odds of death greatly increase when one is sixty-five years of age or older.
Government has the power to protect the health, welfare, and safety of its citizens. These are known as police powers. Really, if it did not have this power what point would there be to having government at all? I mean if it cannot do this why am I paying taxes? The job of public health officials is no less a serious job than that of policeman or fireman. All are charged with the tax of protecting people like me from criminals, fires, and infectious disease.
As long as you can take up space I may need or someone else may need in a hospital emergency room because of Covid we have every right to be concerned whether you are vaccinated or not.
Finally, just a word to the wise. This applies to all non-vaccinators. The rest of us who have done our duty are tired of you. We will continue to tighten the screws and make it harder for you to be unvaccinated. Expect all kinds of restrictions on yourself and activities. You may avoid vaccinating by being obstinate. The price will be leading a lesser life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyfinestbxtf
I’m good. I don’t read propaganda from the Pravda media. You can read my link that shows in detail and accuracy Trump’s response to covid. You would have given me a really good laugh if you cited the Holocaust denying NYT’s and Washington Post.
I guess a comment like this is what I would expect from you after all the manure you have spread here so far.
2sleepy and myself shared article explaining simpson's paradox. Either you didn't understand or didn't read it. I see you are neither a science expert or data expert. I work as data scientist and data can be manipulated to feed your thoughts. You should not take overall survival rate but analyze by age group. Viral load of vaccinated were lower for previous variants compared to unvaccinated. For delta viral load is higher and that's where booster shots come into play. Also one has to consider side effects other than just death, one of my below 30 healthy family member has taste and smell loss after 4 months getting covid.
It doesn’t require a data scientist to know that the older you are the more vulnerable you are to this virus. Being a data scientists doesn’t make you an epidemiologist either. The vast majority of those who are 65 and older have at least one dose of the covid shot. How many of the remaining have natural immunity? The younger you are, the greater the survival rate is. If not having any underlying conditions, it is quite rare to die of covid under the age of 65. That’s a fact. We can all see the data for ourselves. That is why there is absolutely zero articulable reason to mandate a covid shot that doesn’t prevent the infection of covid or it’s spread. It just doesn’t.
Will the booster shot be designed for the Delta variant? As far as I understand, the covid shot that exists now is for the alpha variant. Yes, it helps with immunity with the Delta, but not as effective as it was with alpha. Now, I’m recently infected with the Delta variant. I have the J&J shot. Would I be mandated for the booster? Does that make scientific sense?
Read this article from the Cleveland Clinic which is one of the finest medical facilities in this country. The article details how the vaccine (1) prevents actual disease; and (2) that while someone who gets a vaccine can spread covid they will spread it at a lesser rate than someone who has not been vaccinated.
No one in their right mind could argue that someone ought to run the risk of being sick with Covid just so they can develop natural immunity. The risk of both death and serious permanent effects from the disease are too high.
Your numbers are wrong too. Johns Hopkins Covid statistics indicate that 42,500,000 people have had Covid in the USA. Out of those 42,500,000, six hundred eighty thousand have died. If we do the math, that's one out of 61 people who catch the disease die from it. That's close to 2 out of every hundred people. So approximately 2% of people in the USA who catch covid die from it. By way of comparison no other infectious disease has killed that many people since the Spanish Flu of 1918-1919. A one in fifty or one in sixty chance of dying from a disease is nothing to make light of. Odds of death greatly increase when one is sixty-five years of age or older.
Government has the power to protect the health, welfare, and safety of its citizens. These are known as police powers. Really, if it did not have this power what point would there be to having government at all? I mean if it cannot do this why am I paying taxes? The job of public health officials is no less a serious job than that of policeman or fireman. All are charged with the tax of protecting people like me from criminals, fires, and infectious disease.
As long as you can take up space I may need or someone else may need in a hospital emergency room because of Covid we have every right to be concerned whether you are vaccinated or not.
Finally, just a word to the wise. This applies to all non-vaccinators. The rest of us who have done our duty are tired of you. We will continue to tighten the screws and make it harder for you to be unvaccinated. Expect all kinds of restrictions on yourself and activities. You may avoid vaccinating by being obstinate. The price will be leading a lesser life.
I guess a comment like this is what I would expect from you after all the manure you have spread here so far.
People who think like this are more dangerous than covid and the Spanish flu combined. Scary there are this many True Believers. We are not a police state, at least yet. Also, government is under zero obligation to protect the safety of it’s citizens. At least in the way you think they are. The powers of the government are specifically outlined in the US Constitution. Yes, we are a nation of rules and laws and every person within the US has the right of Due Process, but the government isn’t under any obligation to prevent an individual from getting sick just as the police are under zero obligation to protect life and property. Your health and safety is solely your responsibility. I don’t know what Marxist indoctrinating campus spawned you, but it’s apparent you’re recently minted.
I am vaccinated, my wife is vaccinated. I trust in the science behind the covid shot. I believe it helps prevent hospitalization and severe sickness. I’m solely against mandating this shot because it isn’t one size fits all and I understand peoples concerns in regards to this shot.
I read the Cleveland clinic article and there is a lot of “mights” and “don’t knows” in it. Nothing there convincing to mandate a covid shot.
Also, if covid had a death rate of 2%, millions of Americans would be dead. Just because there are only 42 million confirmed cases doesn’t mean only 42 million individuals have been infected.
Last edited by Nyfinestbxtf; 09-24-2021 at 11:25 AM..
It doesn’t require a data scientist to know that the older you are the more vulnerable you are to this virus. Being a data scientists doesn’t make you an epidemiologist either. The vast majority of those who are 65 and older have at least one dose of the covid shot. How many of the remaining have natural immunity? The younger you are, the greater the survival rate is. If not having any underlying conditions, it is quite rare to die of covid under the age of 65. That’s a fact. We can all see the data for ourselves. That is why there is absolutely zero articulable reason to mandate a covid shot that doesn’t prevent the infection of covid or it’s spread. It just doesn’t.
Will the booster shot be designed for the Delta variant? As far as I understand, the covid shot that exists now is for the alpha variant. Yes, it helps with immunity with the Delta, but not as effective as it was with alpha. Now, I’m recently infected with the Delta variant. I have the J&J shot. Would I be mandated for the booster? Does that make scientific sense?
How do you acquire natural immunity to a pathogen that didn't exist until 2019? By the way how do you know you are infected with the Delta variant?
How do you acquire natural immunity to a pathogen that didn't exist until 2019? By the way how do you know you are infected with the Delta variant?
Being that the delta variant is accounting for more than 99% of cases, if I was a betting man, I would put my chips on that being what I was infected with. By natural immunity, it means those who have been previously infected with covid.
It doesn’t require a data scientist to know that the older you are the more vulnerable you are to this virus. Being a data scientists doesn’t make you an epidemiologist either. The vast majority of those who are 65 and older have at least one dose of the covid shot. How many of the remaining have natural immunity? The younger you are, the greater the survival rate is. If not having any underlying conditions, it is quite rare to die of covid under the age of 65. That’s a fact. We can all see the data for ourselves. That is why there is absolutely zero articulable reason to mandate a covid shot that doesn’t prevent the infection of covid or it’s spread. It just doesn’t.
Will the booster shot be designed for the Delta variant? As far as I understand, the covid shot that exists now is for the alpha variant. Yes, it helps with immunity with the Delta, but not as effective as it was with alpha. Now, I’m recently infected with the Delta variant. I have the J&J shot. Would I be mandated for the booster? Does that make scientific sense?
You are not agreeing with epidemiologists that covid is dangerous and keep clinging to 99% survival rate which in other words is data. But when it benefits you, immediately use the card "you are not epidemiologist". Yes every one knows old are vulnerable but what you fail to understand is young can infect the old extreme easy and totally ignoring long covid effects other than death. Yes you are right, current vaccine was developed for alpha but since ppl kept arguing it mutated to delta. If the study result shows booster works effectively against delta then yes it should be mandated. Either we come out of this pandemic working as a team or keep arguing the same points for another 2 yrs. One thing not clear is whether next mutation would be weaker or stronger than delta.
You are not agreeing with epidemiologists that covid is dangerous and keep clinging to 99% survival rate which in other words is data. But when it benefits you, immediately use the card "you are not epidemiologist". Yes every one knows old are vulnerable but what you fail to understand is young can infect the old extreme easy and totally ignoring long covid effects other than death. Yes you are right, current vaccine was developed for alpha but since ppl kept arguing it mutated to delta. If the study result shows booster works effectively against delta then yes it should be mandated. Either we come out of this pandemic working as a team or keep arguing the same points for another 2 yrs. One thing not clear is whether next mutation would be weaker or stronger than delta.
BTW data is just a number till you fall in it!
About 90% of those 65 and older have at least one dose of the covid shot. So why do younger individuals need the covid shot to protect those 65 years old and older when they are already protected from the jab?
If there is a vaccine that is created that can effectively stop the spread and infection of the Delta variant, then I will listen. As of now, there isn’t. So why are we mandating a vaccine that is more effective on a variant that isn’t predominantly infecting anyone? This covid shot only gives a level of immunity to those who are infected. That’s all it does.
Yes, this virus is dangerous. It’s extremely dangerous. It’s a bio-weapon developed in a Chinese military lab funded by the United States to target humans. This virus is downright dangerous and it’s mutations do not seem to be of weaker variants.
People who think like this are more dangerous than covid and the Spanish flu combined. Scary there are this many True Believers. We are not a police state, at least yet. Also, government is under zero obligation to protect the safety of it’s citizens. At least in the way you think they are. The powers of the government are specifically outlined in the US Constitution. Yes, we are a nation of rules and laws and every person within the US has the right of Due Process, but the government isn’t under any obligation to prevent an individual from getting sick just as the police are under zero obligation to protect life and property. Your health and safety is solely your responsibility. I don’t know what Marxist indoctrinating campus spawned you, but it’s apparent you’re recently minted.
I admit I seldom laugh at posts like yours, but this is truly laughable.
I'm going to cite you three U.S. Supreme court cases that stand for exactly the proposition I'm arguing here. I want to note these concepts are not "newly minted". Two of the cases were decided before the advent of the first communist country, the USSR in 1917.
Compagnie Francaise v. Louisiana Board of Health, 186 US 380 (1902). Upheld the power of a state government to impose a quarantine on passengers on a ship who they felt might be carrying an infectious disease.
Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 US 11 (1905). Upheld the power of Massachusetts to require citizens to vaccinate. The court stated that individual liberties were not absolute, but had to be balanced against the police powers of the state.
Zucht v. King, 260 US 174 (1922). Upheld the San Antonio school district's authority to refuse enrollment to students who would not vaccinate.
There is nothing new about police power to stop the spread of disease. Cities and states have imposed quarantines and other measures for hundreds of years when epidemic disease swept through them. I think Karl Marx would turn over in his grave if could hear you claiming this was "Marxist indoctrination".
The Covid Vaccines are among the most intensely tested vaccines ever and they have prevented millions of cases of serious illness, hospitalization and death. You can pretend reality doesn't exist but most reasonable people don't ignore the mounds of empirical evidence.
Ehhhh…most of the unvaccinated are definitely not health nuts. They are super religious and love them some Trump.
I’m against vaccine mandates, but that deserved to be clarified.
How exactly did you clarify it? Before 2020 the people who were most against vaccines were the types I named. Why do you think this has changed, especially when Trump promoted the vaccine? Do you honestly think it's as simple as looking at county data of registered democrats vs republicans?
Last time you said you needed to "clarify" something I posted in this section you were flat out wrong and didn't come back into the thread because of it, especially after I posted the CORRECT DATA for you. Now here you are doing it again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcp86
When you compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated admitted to hospital due to covid, unvaccinated ppl are more. You are making your opinion not fact. From the numbers below it's easy to conclude unvaccinated are spreading it more than vaccinated
So it's my opinion that vaccinated people would show less symptoms if they contract covid? Did you even read what I wrote because your response has nothing to do with it.
Last edited by DabOnEm; 09-24-2021 at 12:30 PM..
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