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If when you say "we" you mean the government and direct government intervention, then the answer is nothing.
We're seeing the natural evolution of a city and its population. Indirectly the government could increase enforcement of immigration laws and border control, but that would "eliminate" only a fraction of LA's Hispanic/Latino population. This would not impact the remainder who are legal immigrants and native-born citizens. The government could start mandating where certain people could or could not live but that sounds like something you'd hear about in the People's Republic of China or read in a book about the dark days of US history.
On the individual level, there are some things that could be done but it would all be voluntary. For example, having children. If my observations and readings are any guide, the better educated, more affluent segments of the Hispanic/Latino population will self-regulate and have only 2.4 kids. (but not always). New arrivals, and less educated/affluent segments of this population may have more kids (but not always). However, with increased assimilation and better education, the following generations will have increasingly less and less children. Keep in mind, this pattern is observable in all ethnic/racial groups.
Conversely, non-Hispanics/Latinos could offset the growth in the Hispanic/Latino population by having more kids. Also, they could stop migrating out of Los Angeles. Picture this: there are 10 persons of ethnic group A, 10 persons of group B, 10 of group C, and 10 of group D for a total combined population of 40. Therefore, the population mix is 25% A, 25% B, and so forth. If all of group A leaves, should members of group A be surprised that the population mix went from 25% across the board for all ethnic groups to 33.3% for groups B, C, and D, and 0% for group A? Population shifts like this, aka "White Flight", "Black Flight", etc. contribute and accelerate the loss of diversity. One cannot leave and then return to wonder where everyone like him went...they left !! Don't leave!
EXACTLY.
I, for one, am a little disappointed in LA losing its Black community. But why are they leaving? Why not help improve their communities, maintain their presence, and put effort into their neighborhoods instead of taking off for greener pastures?
When they leave, inevitably, someones going to take their place. And the more that leave, the more of that other group are going to come and fill in the gaps. It doesn't make sense to resent the Latinos for replaceing the Blacks in places like South Central.
But I guess thats the way it goes. Demographics change in neighborhoods and cities.
All I can say is a lot of people here in the U.S. tend to judge hispanics based on the poor mostly illegals/criminals that come to this country (which is probably 90%).
I also noticed that some think that all latinos are mexican or that all latinos are very similar in their cultures. The thing about latinos being violent by nature I think is a joke. I lot of the violence that you see in poor countries is mostly because of that, poverty and little access to education. In Colombia farmers would rather turn into cultivating drugs (thanks to the great demand for it, specially here in the U.S the #1 consumer) rather than get less than 0.000001 cents for a $5 cup of coffee sold here in Starbucks.
You rarely see people of those countries of the middle or upper class being violent, that is really far from the truth. In fact people are very well educated and dress up far more than they do here. Moral values are also highly cultivated. I can tell you that men don't beat their wives, at least not in the circle that I move, the divorce rate is actually pretty low. Women tend to be very feminine and take care of themselves, guys tend to respect them a whole lot, forget about some man using the equivalent in spanish of "dude" to a girl.
Here in the U.S is where I have seen the glorification of violence, think of the UFC, think of the praising of the war and excitement that some people get out of the technology used for weapons (look how cool that raptor just blew up that house), and is his here where the words kick and ass get used pretty much on a daily basis. Sure, where I come from there is a lot violence but out of necessity, however, you probably won't see in your lifetime kids in my country go on a shooting spree killing other kids just because.
The problem of illegals is actually pretty easy, don't give them jobs. The reality is that the think tanks in the Government could do far more about it, but they realize how much they affect the economy, so they'll appease the public by doing a raid here and there. Some of the biggest corporations in the U.S use illegals, why the government hasn't really crack down on them? Walmart for example, large meat packing companies, etc.. and by the way is not the illegals the ones who don't pay taxes, is those who hire them, which also pocket the money that should go toward the health insurance of their employees.
If when you say "we" you mean the government and direct government intervention, then the answer is nothing.
We're seeing the natural evolution of a city and its population. Indirectly the government could increase enforcement of immigration laws and border control, but that would "eliminate" only a fraction of LA's Hispanic/Latino population. This would not impact the remainder who are legal immigrants and native-born citizens. The government could start mandating where certain people could or could not live but that sounds like something you'd hear about in the People's Republic of China or read in a book about the dark days of US history.
On the individual level, there are some things that could be done but it would all be voluntary. For example, having children. If my observations and readings are any guide, the better educated, more affluent segments of the Hispanic/Latino population will self-regulate and have only 2.4 kids. (but not always). New arrivals, and less educated/affluent segments of this population may have more kids (but not always). However, with increased assimilation and better education, the following generations will have increasingly less and less children. Keep in mind, this pattern is observable in all ethnic/racial groups.
Conversely, non-Hispanics/Latinos could offset the growth in the Hispanic/Latino population by having more kids. Also, they could stop migrating out of Los Angeles. Picture this: there are 10 persons of ethnic group A, 10 persons of group B, 10 of group C, and 10 of group D for a total combined population of 40. Therefore, the population mix is 25% A, 25% B, and so forth. If all of group A leaves, should members of group A be surprised that the population mix went from 25% across the board for all ethnic groups to 33.3% for groups B, C, and D, and 0% for group A? Population shifts like this, aka "White Flight", "Black Flight", etc. contribute and accelerate the loss of diversity. One cannot leave and then return to wonder where everyone like him went...they left !! Don't leave!
for which of the following reasons do you think i should stay?
1. to pay ever-increasing taxes to provide services that are handed out like water to people who don't have a social security card, but that i wouldn't be able to get without first jumping through hurdles to convince some bureaucrat that i'm not a welfare-cheat;
2. to put up with an increasing number of merchants who don't hire people who can communicate sufficiently well in english to help me find the merchandise i'm there to spend my money on, and then be given the stink-eye by management when i complain about their ineffective, non-english-speaking 'customer service' employees;
3. to be served contaminated food by people without sufficient knowledge of basic hygiene to understand that you're supposed to wash your hands after wiping your ass;
4. to see black teens not be able to secure jobs flipping burgers in their own neighborhoods, because the latino assistant manager won't hire them, and even if he did, they would be alienated because all the workplace chatter is conducted in spanish;
5. to witness friends with master's degrees in social work or counseling, afraid to leave jobs they're no longer happy with because prospective employers are all advertising "bilingual preferred," which is really just code for "hispanic only";
6. to watch more friends and neighbors move away to raise their families because, like the mayor, they wouldn't sacrifice (his word) their children's education to schools that have been destroyed by rapid, overwhelming demographic changes; but, who, unlike the mayor, can't afford to live here AND pay private school tuition;
7. to not go to the emergency room the next time my back pain forces me to my knees, because i know that the nearest one will be filled with dozens of hispanic parents with kids with the sniffles, and i'll be there all night;
8. to see the neighborhoods of my youth become urban wastelands strewn with animal carcases;
9. for the next jamiel shaw to be murdered by an illegal alien gang-banger, just one day out of jail, who was on the street because of insane, illegal-pandering policies like LAPD Special Order 40, which places us ALL at risk; or
10. so that the city's elected officials can continue to treat me and anyone else who raises a voice in protest of this madness as if we're **** on the bottom of their shoes, because they know they'll get the votes they need elsewhere...even from people who aren't legally entitled to vote, if necessary?
All I can say is a lot of people here in the U.S. tend to judge hispanics based on the poor mostly illegals/criminals that come to this country (which is probably 90%).
I also noticed that some think that all latinos are mexican or that all latinos are very similar in their cultures. The thing about latinos being violent by nature I think is a joke. I lot of the violence that you see in poor countries is mostly because of that, poverty and little access to education. In Colombia farmers would rather turn into cultivating drugs (thanks to the great demand for it, specially here in the U.S the #1 consumer) rather than get less than 0.000001 cents for a $5 cup of coffee sold here in Starbucks.
You rarely see people of those countries of the middle or upper class being violent, that is really far from the truth. In fact people are very well educated and dress up far more than they do here. Moral values are also highly cultivated. I can tell you that men don't beat their wives, at least not in the circle that I move, the divorce rate is actually pretty low. Women tend to be very feminine and take care of themselves, guys tend to respect them a whole lot, forget about some man using the equivalent in spanish of "dude" to a girl.
Here in the U.S is where I have seen the glorification of violence, think of the UFC, think of the praising of the war and excitement that some people get out of the technology used for weapons (look how cool that raptor just blew up that house), and is his here where the words kick and ass get used pretty much on a daily basis. Sure, where I come from there is a lot violence but out of necessity, however, you probably won't see in your lifetime kids in my country go on a shooting spree killing other kids just because.
The problem of illegals is actually pretty easy, don't give them jobs. The reality is that the think tanks in the Government could do far more about it, but they realize how much they affect the economy, so they'll appease the public by doing a raid here and there. Some of the biggest corporations in the U.S use illegals, why the government hasn't really crack down on them? Walmart for example, large meat packing companies, etc.. and by the way is not the illegals the ones who don't pay taxes, is those who hire them, which also pocket the money that should go toward the health insurance of their employees.
anyone who is familiar with salvadorans, guatemalans, south americans or hispanic islanders wouldn't think that for very long, as members of these groups are always very quick to let others know that they are NOT MEXICANS.
The way things are going, a few decades from now the number of Non Hispanics living in Los Angeles will be as small as the number of Jews and Christians currently living in Iran. That's how bad the future situation is going to be in L.A. Los Angeles will be the least racially diverse city in the United States that has a population of over 1 million people.
for which of the following reasons do you think i should stay?
1. to pay ever-increasing taxes to provide services that are handed out like water to people who don't have a social security card, but that i wouldn't be able to get without first jumping through hurdles to convince some bureaucrat that i'm not a welfare-cheat;
2. to put up with an increasing number of merchants who don't hire people who can communicate sufficiently well in english to help me find the merchandise i'm there to spend my money on, and then be given the stink-eye by management when i complain about their ineffective, non-english-speaking 'customer service' employees;
3. to be served contaminated food by people without sufficient knowledge of basic hygiene to understand that you're supposed to wash your hands after wiping your ass;
4. to see black teens not be able to secure jobs flipping burgers in their own neighborhoods, because the latino assistant manager won't hire them, and even if he did, they would be alienated because all the workplace chatter is conducted in spanish;
5. to witness friends with master's degrees in social work or counseling, afraid to leave jobs they're no longer happy with because prospective employers are all advertising "bilingual preferred," which is really just code for "hispanic only";
6. to watch more friends and neighbors move away to raise their families because, like the mayor, they wouldn't sacrifice (his word) their children's education to schools that have been destroyed by rapid, overwhelming demographic changes; but, who, unlike the mayor, can't afford to live here AND pay private school tuition;
7. to not go to the emergency room the next time my back pain forces me to my knees, because i know that the nearest one will be filled with dozens of hispanic parents with kids with the sniffles, and i'll be there all night;
8. to see the neighborhoods of my youth become urban wastelands strewn with animal carcases;
9. for the next jamiel shaw to be murdered by an illegal alien gang-banger, just one day out of jail, who was on the street because of insane, illegal-pandering policies like LAPD Special Order 40, which places us ALL at risk; or
10. so that the city's elected officials can continue to treat me and anyone else who raises a voice in protest of this madness as if we're **** on the bottom of their shoes, because they know they'll get the votes they need elsewhere...even from people who aren't legally entitled to vote, if necessary?
Leaving does not solve any of these problems. It creates them. If you want the place you live in to have, for example, more blacks (or whatever ethnic group you prefer) living there, then black people actually have to live there. The Hispanics/Latinos creating the conditions you cite are not commuting in from some distant location - they live there. They live there because they moved in when someone else moved out.
If one black family leaves a neighborhood, it is possible that another black family will move in - or maybe not. Maybe a Hispanic/Latino family will move in. So perhaps other black families are concerned and so they, when the opportunity arises, leave, too. Another set of Hispanic/Latino families will move in. And so on and so on. The point of me saying "Don't leave" was when you do leave you set in motion a chain of events that leads to the things you listed as reasons not to stay.
The shifting demographics have caused the population Los Angeles to become dominated by Hispanics/Latinos and, naturally, their interests (whether you agree with them or not) have moved to the forefront. Of course, then, this leads the politicians and businesses to cater and spend more time on them. No politician who wants to have a long career in politics and no business that wants to make money can afford to ignore them.
Therefore, you will see this attention manifest itself as "Se Habla Espanol", tons of taco trucks, employers saying "bilingual is a plus", politicians leaning heavily towards Hispanic/Latino concerns, etc. This phenomenon is not limited to Hispanic/Latino neighborhoods/enclaves, either. A stroll through Chinatown to observe the political players and how the dominant population there does business proves this.
Northwest Arkansas is getting flooded with relocating white Californians, while the hispanics are coming from Mexico to build the houses for the relocating Californians.
Leaving does not solve any of these problems. It creates them. If you want the place you live in to have, for example, more blacks (or whatever ethnic group you prefer) living there, then black people actually have to live there. The Hispanics/Latinos creating the conditions you cite are not commuting in from some distant location - they live there. They live there because they moved in when someone else moved out.
If one black family leaves a neighborhood, it is possible that another black family will move in - or maybe not. Maybe a Hispanic/Latino family will move in. So perhaps other black families are concerned and so they, when the opportunity arises, leave, too. Another set of Hispanic/Latino families will move in. And so on and so on. The point of me saying "Don't leave" was when you do leave you set in motion a chain of events that leads to the things you listed as reasons not to stay.
The shifting demographics have caused the population Los Angeles to become dominated by Hispanics/Latinos and, naturally, their interests (whether you agree with them or not) have moved to the forefront. Of course, then, this leads the politicians and businesses to cater and spend more time on them. No politician who wants to have a long career in politics and no business that wants to make money can afford to ignore them.
Therefore, you will see this attention manifest itself as "Se Habla Espanol", tons of taco trucks, employers saying "bilingual is a plus", politicians leaning heavily towards Hispanic/Latino concerns, etc. This phenomenon is not limited to Hispanic/Latino neighborhoods/enclaves, either. A stroll through Chinatown to observe the political players and how the dominant population there does business proves this.
you are wrong about that, because it solves (or, at least, diminishes) the problem for ME. some people are willing to put up with all of the ill effects to continue to live here, and i'm sure they have their reasons. until recently, i had my own reasons, and was determined to stay. in fact, i still have those reasons, each and every one; i've just adjusted my priorities so that the things that have kept me here are no longer the most important.
i think you have the wrong idea if you think i'm trying to move where there are more of any particular group when, in fact, the city i'm considering has a more paltry percentage of blacks in the population than does LA. my problems with this city with regard to the demographic changes have nothing to do with it not being 'black enough'; it has to do with it no longer being an AMERICAN city, except by virtue of a rapidly eroding geopolitical boundary. i can no longer abide what has happened to the city, as a whole, because of the unabated influx of people who are unprepared, unwilling, and worst of all, unrequired to assimilate. (and that last factor is 'our' doing, not theirs!) if i wanted to live in latin-american city, i'd move to one. since LA is becoming that around me, and people like you keep telling me that the forces making it so are more powerful than those of us who don't see it as a desirable thing, it's time to go. i think the alternative is sometimes called "tilting at windmills," or bashing one's head against a brick wall. i'll leave you to pick the metaphor while i pack.
you are wrong about that, because it solves (or, at least, diminishes) the problem for ME. some people are willing to put up with all of the ill effects to continue to live here, and i'm sure they have their reasons. until recently, i had my own reasons, and was determined to stay. in fact, i still have those reasons, each and every one; i've just adjusted my priorities so that the things that have kept me here are no longer the most important.
Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katenik
i think you have the wrong idea if you think i'm trying to move where there are more of any particular group when, in fact, the city i'm considering has a more paltry percentage of blacks in the population than does LA. my problems with this city with regard to the demographic changes have nothing to do with it not being 'black enough'....
Which is why I said, and I quote myself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC
Leaving does not solve any of these problems. It creates them. If you want the place you live in to have, for example, more blacks (or whatever ethnic group you prefer) living there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by katenik
...since LA is becoming that around me, and people like you keep telling me that the forces making it so are more powerful than those of us who don't see it as a desirable thing, it's time to go. i think the alternative is sometimes called "tilting at windmills," or bashing one's head against a brick wall. i'll leave you to pick the metaphor while i pack.
I never stated explicitly, or implicitly, that "the forces...are more powerful." I do not believe that to be true. Nor do I believe that we should embrace changes and its effects casually, if at all. What I have stated is that your position, and mine, is weakened when like-minded individuals abandon the community. Trust me, I'm not thrilled with the things you have on your list. It is unfortunate and, some of them, are very distasteful.
The metaphor I would use is a football game. The field is Los Angeles. Let's assume the home team is losing this game, but has not lost it. The home team is demoralized and the crowd is headed for the parking lot. The players on the field should not give up just because they're behind 2 touchdowns. They stay and play hard because it could turnaround in the home team's favor. Don't walk off the field...the game is not over .
That's what I think. I realize I'm not going to change your mind, nor am I attempting to. Good luck at your future location.
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!! Don't leave!
as a latino I will comment on that
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