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Something that has struck me as incredibly odd with large cities such as LA and NY is that it seems to me the greater the density of the population the lower the standard of living. In other words, people are willing to pay more to receive less for many things, and are more willing to put up with greater headaches, like endless traffic. Presumably this is offset by some benefit elsewhere, but I am not so sure. I think more times than not people lose sight of what they are giving up and simply settle for a below average standard of living just so they can say they live in LA or NY.
Have you ever read the book Freakanomics? One of the questions addressed was why are kids willing to stand on the street corner all day selling drugs, risking death, to make so little money? The guy on the street doesn't make much, it all goes upstream. The answer in the book was that the front-line seller sees his "career" choice as lottery. He's standing out there dodging bullets for a chance to work his way up the ladder and hit the big time when he's the boss. Of course, most of them won't ever make it, but they think they will, so they risk a lot for the chance.
That situation reminds me of people moving to LA or NYC. So many think that the city is their opportunity to make it big. Whether it's becoming a star in LA, a real estate billionaire, or a Wall St. big shot. And they're willing to put up with a lot of crap for their chance. Of course, 99.5% of them don't make it (isn't average salary in LA something like $35k/yr?) but the dream keeps drawing them in from their small towns to live two to a bedroom in a shady part of town.
Have you ever read the book Freakanomics? One of the questions addressed was why are kids willing to stand on the street corner all day selling drugs, risking death, to make so little money? The guy on the street doesn't make much, it all goes upstream. The answer in the book was that the front-line seller sees his "career" choice as lottery. He's standing out there dodging bullets for a chance to work his way up the ladder and hit the big time when he's the boss. Of course, most of them won't ever make it, but they think they will, so they risk a lot for the chance.
That situation reminds me of people moving to LA or NYC. So many think that the city is their opportunity to make it big. Whether it's becoming a star in LA, a real estate billionaire, or a Wall St. big shot. And they're willing to put up with a lot of crap for their chance. Of course, 99.5% of them don't make it (isn't average salary in LA something like $35k/yr?) but the dream keeps drawing them in from their small towns to live two to a bedroom in a shady part of town.
I think a lot of that is true. I wonder what the population would be if you took out all of the people in the industry or the people that want to be in the industry. The industry being music and movies, maybe fashion too.
I was on jury duty a year or two ago. During the jury selection process they interview the potential jurors, and one of the questions is what you do for a living. Funnily enough, well more than half of the jurors were in the entertainment industry. The judge even joked that he hoped he wasn't shutting down Hollywood for this trial. It was interesting. I never would have expected such a high concentration in such a small, presumably random, sampling.
I wonder if TV or movies glamorize LA in such a way that it artificially increases the demand to live in LA.
If you use the posts on this forum of people wanting to move out here, I think so. How often does the poster have any idea of what it costs to live here or the true nature of the traffic? And then when you tell them they don't believe you. Generally their point of reference is how much fun they had on vacation and now have the idea that is normal life.
I had a bit of that disillusionment when I moved out here. Fortunately I make decent money and can afford it. If I made what most of these kids are making that want to move out here, there isn't a chance in hell I would move here. I wouldn't be able to afford to do anything. What would be the point?
Something that has struck me as incredibly odd with large cities such as LA and NY is that it seems to me the greater the density of the population the lower the standard of living. In other words, people are willing to pay more to receive less for many things, and are more willing to put up with greater headaches, like endless traffic. Presumably this is offset by some benefit elsewhere, but I am not so sure. I think more times than not people lose sight of what they are giving up and simply settle for a below average standard of living just so they can say they live in LA or NY.
Depends on what you think of as quality of life, to some extent; I'm willing to pay more to live in a city, not because of the name, but because of the benefits like being able to walk places, take public transportation, plentiful cultural amenities, interesting people from all over the world, and more job opportunities.
If you use the posts on this forum of people wanting to move out here, I think so. How often does the poster have any idea of what it costs to live here or the true nature of the traffic? And then when you tell them they don't believe you. Generally their point of reference is how much fun they had on vacation and now have the idea that is normal life.
I had a bit of that disillusionment when I moved out here. Fortunately I make decent money and can afford it. If I made what most of these kids are making that want to move out here, there isn't a chance in hell I would move here. I wouldn't be able to afford to do anything. What would be the point?
Not all the young people you see in LA are poor starry eyed dreamers who moved to LA from other parts of the country, stuffing themselves into crowded apartments. A lot of them-- actually, probably most-- were born and raised in the LA area.
I'll tell you a little secret. I don't ever ask people about their finances, but I know what things cost, I know what rents are like in different parts of town, I know what average salaries are like for recent college graduates in different fields, and I know how to do the math-- for 95% of the people I know here, friends and acquaintances, the numbers on the balance sheet just don't add up. Thus there's two "plug numbers": debt... and mommy & daddy.
Case in point-- I know this guy who lives pretty high up in a high rise apartment on Ocean Blvd in Santa Monica, in a corner unit that overlooks the mountains on one side and the ocean out of the other. He has TWO fairly new vehicles-- a truck (which he's proud to fill up with bio diesel), and a luxury sedan. He never has to worry about what anything costs. I don't know his salary, but I know what he does for a living and I know he just graduated from college last year, and I know there's no way in hell he is 100% supporting himself. I know girls who are still in school and don't work, have no income, and openly admit to having tons of student loans, but still go shopping every single week. Having debt doesn't seem to bother anyone. I know people who work, some full time, some part time (an assortment of different jobs), nice people, who have a lot of fun and go out all the time, never have to worry about money... but they live at home with their parents. Hey, when you have no rent it's pretty easy to enjoy yourself. What all these people have in common is they're all from LA and they all have very affluent parents. And it's not like these people are oddballs-- this city is freaking loaded with these types!
Having debt doesn't seem to bother anyone. I know people who work, some full time, some part time (an assortment of different jobs), nice people, who have a lot of fun and go out all the time, never have to worry about money... but they live at home with their parents. Hey, when you have no rent it's pretty easy to enjoy yourself. What all these people have in common is they're all from LA and they all have very affluent parents. And it's not like these people are oddballs-- this city is freaking loaded with these types!
My wife works with someone like that. She lives with her parents who also pay for her car, insurance, and even gas. She makes probably $15/hr full time and STILL complains about credit card debt. Spending is like a disease. And we wonder why the state government is in the situation it is. It's just reflecting the people it rules.
Location: Los Angeles-213.323.310.818/San Diego-619.858.760
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^^(Uptown_Urbanist)That seems to be what attracts so many people to the city and that possible chance to make it big one day. That is what attracts me to the city. Notice how most people who move in tend to be young adults who are trying to start their career or just want to leave the parents and their hometown.
Freakonomics is a great book!
As a young adult with many young adult friends, I can honestly tell you that we are more than willing to put up with the negatives for positives that you just can't find outside the city. On top of that, many are willing to live with roomates to split living costs and be able to enjoy going out as we please. I know many who hardly make a living but still go out and enjoy themselves like kings. As far as traffic, people aren't stupid and Im willing to bet that the number of people using their bike in the city will greatly multiply. After all, many of us are just a short ride(even walk) to everything we need. Some will get fed up with traffic and leave, others will continue to rely on their car and hopefully public transportation will improve throughout the next decade. Like candidate Walter Moore said, we need to eliminate all side street parking to allow the flow of traffic to be a lot smoother. By doing that we can ease traffic but also provide more parking by constructing above/undergound parking structures on side streets.
Location: Los Angeles-213.323.310.818/San Diego-619.858.760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
Not all the young people you see in LA are poor starry eyed dreamers who moved to LA from other parts of the country, stuffing themselves into crowded apartments. A lot of them-- actually, probably most-- were born and raised in the LA area.
I think several of you have hit the nail on the head as to why, after a year and a half of looking for a job, I'm still in Arizona.
Vegaspilgrim and Motoman, I know we spoke on a thread I'd started previously (thanks again for the input!), and I must say, in reference to Vegaspilgrim, it's those plug numbers that have me questioning how people truly make it. The bottom line is that I don't have parents to fall back on, and I'm having a hard time seeing how on earth someone makes a salary in the high 30's in LA and is able to, even with roommates, save adequately for retirement AND any emergencies.
Blogs exist on this, written by individuals living in LA, and I know it happens. But they're the rarity. And they're not making high-30's as a salary (typically something higher). The bottom line is that even though I am fortunate enough to have parents to fall back on in extreme emergency, I don't want to. I'm almost 25 - I should be able to adequately handle myself.
From a sociological standpoint, the whole thing is truly fascinating. In a city of almost 4 million people, there's no way that all of them are supported by parents, or have millions due to "striking it rich" in some way. And yes, there's a fair share of illegal individuals. But infrastructure aside (which yes, clearly needs some work if LA is ever going to be able to separate itself from the auto-centric microcosm of society in general it's become), I'm curious to know how the middle class is getting by in these times. Those individuals that don't have parental pursestrings, that are concerned with savings and acknowledge that constant bleeding of money isn't the way to get by, and are at any point in their career. THAT is a topic for another thread however.
Regardless - as it stands, I could be viewed as one of those individuals that spent a weekend in LA and now wants to move their without acknowledging the risks therein. But that's simply not the case. I'm aware (almost excessively so), and as it stands, still have the bug (and it wasn't one weekend, but rather at least one weekend every month for the past year and half, and several days during the week as well). But I do wish that some progress was being made to bring the public transit to the modern day, to take the focus off the automobile, and to provide a more consistent urban atmosphere.
And now - allow me to step off my soapbox :-)
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