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What exactly is it that you want, other than nature? (not trying to be rude - I'm genuinely curious.)
I found what I wanted in LA (except for the affordable house) but moved on because of a job transfer. We still might come back sometime. I wanted a big city with a lot of options. We found an ideal neighborhood that was both small enough to provide a sense of community yet connected enough to the rest of the city/region to take full advantage of LA's many opportunities. The schools were good, we had a little yard, I could take the train to work, we had friends, professonal opportunities, and a great place to call home.
I guess I don't understand your premise - not that it's not right for you, I get that, and agree that different cities suit different personalities - but that because you didn't find what you wanted then it's therefore all an illusion and no one can find what they want? (and those who do like LA are living a fantasy? Am I reading that right?)
What exactly is it that you want, other than nature? (not trying to be rude - I'm genuinely curious.)
I found what I wanted in LA (except for the affordable house) but moved on because of a job transfer. We still might come back sometime. I wanted a big city with a lot of options. We found an ideal neighborhood that was both small enough to provide a sense of community yet connected enough to the rest of the city/region to take full advantage of LA's many opportunities. The schools were good, we had a little yard, I could take the train to work, we had friends, professonal opportunities, and a great place to call home.
I guess I don't understand your premise - not that it's not right for you, I get that, and agree that different cities suit different personalities - but that because you didn't find what you wanted then it's therefore all an illusion and no one can find what they want? (and those who do like LA are living a fantasy? Am I reading that right?)
Yes, I am making the bold assertion that those who do like LA are living a fantasy. And if it was just me saying it, then I could see why you would think I was some type of disenchanted, tree hugger. But actually what I am talking about is very widely accepted in different academic circles, specifically Philosophy and anything related to Social Theory/Political Theory.
I hope you don't mind this taking a philosophical turn. When someone says they are happy in LA and they like LA. I believe they mean it. Now whether they really are, is something else entirely. I'm sorry for the overuse of Disneyland as a metaphor - but it fits so I'm going to use it again.
Let's say you visit Disneyland and you meet someone there. You start to talking and you ask them where they live. They tell you they live in Disneyland. This surprises you, because although you know people work at and visit Disneyland, you have never heard of anyone LIVING there. You ask them why they live there? They tell you there is so much to do and see in the land of Disney, and they think it is most beautiful/fun/fulfilling place to live.
Now although you visit Disney, you can never imagine really living there and being happy. The chief reason - because you know it is an illusion. But the person you are talking to in Disneyland does not know that. In fact, if you told them that Disneyland was created based on fantasy and illusion and is in fact not reality - they would probably get mad at you and walk away. They may even accuse you of being malcontent or having some bitterness towards the place.
So, not wanting to upset them or alienate them, you don't say anything. You just say it was nice to meet them, and leave well enough alone.
Then stop whining and start living. Pack up your bags and go, make your way in the world. But you can't have mommy and daddy finance it for you. There is no cure for ennui like some hardship.
"Philosophical"?? Try self-absorbed, naive, arrogant. Then stop whining and start living. Pack up your bags and go, make your way in the world. But you can't have mommy and daddy finance it for you. There is no cure for ennui like some hardship.
Maybe this is the wrong forum to have debates in. Most of the things I read, and studied in college are not generally things I bring up in everyday conversation. But I don't see why I can't be allowed to talk about them here. And if its not something you're interested in, just ignore it. You have your perspective, I have mine. But I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning people's perspectives. Isn't that what discourse is about? If the only thing people ever did was validate your perspective, how boring would that be?
When the war started some were all for it. Some not. Just imagine if the ones who were against it were too afraid to say anything for fear of invalidating the others perspective. Don't talk about war casualties, don't talk about American materialism, don't want to offend anyone.
What would you have me say? That LA is great. LA is beautiful. That I haven't seen kids get lost in gangs and drugs and sucked into the underbelly of LA society? That I haven't seen the homeless people wandering the streets like the walking dead? No. I spent all my days shopping in the novelty shops, sun tanning on the beach, and buying food from the farmer's market. That's what you want me to say. Or its just me. Its just that I couldn't find what made me happy. Whatever works for you.
There is a world of difference between a theme park and a city. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but most people (including those in "academic circles") would find your argument lacking in logic.
I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience in LA, but your reality, whatever it may be, is no more real than my reality. And, from your descriptions of your life in LA, it sounds like you had a bad experience because you hung out with shallow people. That's not reflective of the city as a whole, it's reflective of a small group of people that you knew (as friends or coworkers or whatever). LA might have been a bust for you personally, but it's narcissistic to make the leap that because you had bad luck living a fulfilling life in LA, therefore everyone who likes LA and has found fulfillment is therefore living in fantasy.
Now if you were talking about Celebration, or even a subdivision with a HOA, then maybe you'd be able to make a stronger case, or at least a stronger parallel between a controlled environment like a theme park and a chaotic and fluid environment like a city. I am curious to hear your thoughts, but think you need to better define what it is you mean by illusion and fantasy in the context of a city. Because as far as I can tell, LA is a real city, not a theme park. In fact it's the reality that's one of the things I like most about it. That reality isn't always a good thing - the contrast between the wealthy and the poor is extreme, for example, and it's sobering to realize that downtown's Skid Row is in American, not a third world country - but it does give LA some depth and soul.
There is a world of difference between a theme park and a city. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but most people (including those in "academic circles") would find your argument lacking in logic.
I'm sorry that you had an unpleasant experience in LA, but your reality, whatever it may be, is no more real than my reality. And, from your descriptions of your life in LA, it sounds like you had a bad experience because you hung out with shallow people. That's not reflective of the city as a whole, it's reflective of a small group of people that you knew (as friends or coworkers or whatever). LA might have been a bust for you personally, but it's narcissistic to make the leap that because you had bad luck living a fulfilling life in LA, therefore everyone who likes LA and has found fulfillment is therefore living in fantasy.
Now if you were talking about Celebration, or even a subdivision with a HOA, then maybe you'd be able to make a stronger case, or at least a stronger parallel between a controlled environment like a theme park and a chaotic and fluid environment like a city. I am curious to hear your thoughts, but think you need to better define what it is you mean by illusion and fantasy in the context of a city. Because as far as I can tell, LA is a real city, not a theme park. In fact it's the reality that's one of the things I like most about it. That reality isn't always a good thing - the contrast between the wealthy and the poor is extreme, for example, and it's sobering to realize that downtown's Skid Row is in American, not a third world country - but it does give LA some depth and soul.
You don't have to agree with my perspective. And I'm sure there are many who would disagree with my logic and claim its faulty. But if you want to learn more about my point of view, there are plenty of books on the subject, and I doubt all the writers were narcissists with bad experiences in big cities. Many of them were/are highly respected.
Talking about the reality behind LA, reminds me of a scene from Mulholland Drive. This guy is sitting in a diner talking to his friend. He is telling his friend about this nightmare he had. That he walked behind the diner and there was this monster there. His friend tells him that he should go look behind the diner. He is afraid to, but then he does it anyway. Low and behold the monster is there and scares the crap out of him.
I think this whole discussion can be left off just the way it started. You like living in LA. I like visiting every once in a while. I will never understand why you like it there, and I'm sure you will never understand why I compare it to Disneyland . Who knows, maybe one day you will get tired of it and wake up one day and realize you want to live in the rocky mountains. And maybe one day I will visit and never want to go home.
I moved there right after high school and I remember being very excited about it. It was a big city with tons to do, tons of young people at the beaches, surfing, clubbing, etc. But after being there a couple of years all the excitement and wonder had worn off. And now I just don't get why anyone would like that place. I try to understand - yes there's beaches, yes there's tons of people, yes there's lots of shopping and tons of places to spend your money on. But has anyone ever noticed how ugly the beaches are? There is no vegetation! Most beaches have wet lands surrounding the shores with wildlife, and vegetation. Its apart of the appeal of the beach! But most of the wet lands have been destroyed in Southern California, so all you see is yellow sand.
And really, how much happiness can materialism really get you? Go out here to this club - spend money, buy stuff, yada yada. Am I the only one who is bored by that?
The plasticity of the whole place. The superficiality. The self-important people. Its like one big giant Disneyland. I don't get it.
I agree, but I find this is a generational problem. Look at many of the movies that are out. Stupid, mindless humor with some unkempt-looking guy acting like a moron. This is supposed to be entertainment. Talk to people now and they are completely self-absorbed. No sense of history, no appreciation for what their ancestors did, not even their parents. Content to paste that cell phone to their ear and walk through life that way. Communication mainly done through facebook or myspace or twitter or some other artificial means. Can't believe for instance on facebook, a 42-year old guy in the spirit of the site, posts that he is "feeling alive after a visit to Starbucks." Two minutes later, he says that he's "driving to pick up my clothes from the cleaners." Insane! People who like talk like this when they like go to the mall are like totally OMG...shallow. I used to think it was just LA, but I see it here in San Francisco. I was in Pittsburgh and Chicago, and see the same thing.
I agree, but I find this is a generational problem. Look at many of the movies that are out. Stupid, mindless humor with some unkempt-looking guy acting like a moron. This is supposed to be entertainment. Talk to people now and they are completely self-absorbed. No sense of history, no appreciation for what their ancestors did, not even their parents. Content to paste that cell phone to their ear and walk through life that way. Communication mainly done through facebook or myspace or twitter or some other artificial means. Can't believe for instance on facebook, a 42-year old guy in the spirit of the site, posts that he is "feeling alive after a visit to Starbucks." Two minutes later, he says that he's "driving to pick up my clothes from the cleaners." Insane! People who like talk like this when they like go to the mall are like totally OMG...shallow. I used to think it was just LA, but I see it here in San Francisco. I was in Pittsburgh and Chicago, and see the same thing.
"Feeling alive after a visit to Starbucks", "now at dry cleaners ... not so alive". lol That is too funny. I agree, I think it is in every major city. I moved up north to Seattle for a while, thinking it would be a lot different. And while it was more "progressed", there was still a lot of the same mumbo jumbo. Except up there, its more tech stuff and less about what kind of car you drive (although that still counts).
Its our society really. Its all become very one dimensional. Not saying there is not good people, but just less authenticity. Less connection. And I see the irony being that I am on here trying to communicate through the very same medium that creates so much distance. Damn it all .
I try not to get wrapped up in it. But it is hard. I can thank LA for finally waking me up to how false a life I was living. By figuring out who I wasn't I think that pushed me to find out who I was.
Anyway, I'm just glad I found someone that liked my post! The people on City-data are a tough crowd!
You asked a question, got answers and didn't like them, and can't accept them.
So what's the point? You know everything, everyone else knows nothing. Nobody's perspective but yours has any validity, you don't ask for advice, not interested in other opinions... You think you know what you want, so why don't you go get it? Talk is cheap.
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. Who knows, maybe one day you will get tired of it and wake up one day and realize you want to live in the rocky mountains. And maybe one day I will visit and never want to go home.
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