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Hm, it seems like you (the OP) might have become a little jaded in your early 20's with a place you were tired of. That doesn't mean the city IS that way, just because you began to SEE it that way. And this is waaaaayyyy too big a city to describe in any one way. I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative - not my intent.
I hardly EVER see plastic people! I think maybe they are more common on the west side? I don't care really - they're pretty when you do see them. Why would I complain about seeing someone pretty? I actually have had the reverse experience - people are so REAL here, so NOT plastic, that it has been very refreshing to me.
I don't know... if you don't like a certain place (LA or any other), it's certainly your right. But if you want to know what I like about LA, I can tell you.
I like the vegetation and the topography. Love the roses in January and the snow up on the mountaintops.
I like the diversity. I like all the different nationalities and the different languages on the shops. I like the people - I find them to be open and friendly. I like the weather, the shopping, the beaches and the museums. I like pretty much everything about the whole entire city. I love it that people are not segregated racially. I'm being forced out of my lazy comfort zone, and learning some other languages (admittedly very slowly). I LOVE all the international food. That is amazing in my book - love it.
I could list some more things but have to go do something in real life. Maybe someone else will list what they like about LA. It's a great city!
No, I'm not expecting to be convinced by your argument, just want to figure out what exactly it is that you're arguing. A city is not like a theme park because it is not fake. It is real, and LA is real in a very gritty, often unpleasant way. Theme parks are designed to hide all of that, to give people a temporary respite from it. Could you point to one of these many scholars that you're referencing?
I also don't believe that people are any more shallow or one-dimensional than they were in years past. I agree with the poster above who thought that this was a generational thing, or at least something related to your age - I'm getting the impression that you're still fairly young, and at some point it hits most of us that life isn't perfect, probably will never be, and we learn more about ourselves and what we personally need to feel fulfilled.
And, not to really stir the pot, but I believe in another post it was you who said that public transportation was virtually non-existant? Perhaps it was a car-based lifestyle in some of the more car-oriented areas of the city that led you to feel unconnected from others? You reference that people in LA care what kind of car you drive - many of them don't care in the least. I didn't have a car at all. My friends had various models. I didn't care what they drove or didn't drive. I didn't know anyone who did. Your posts only reinforce my impression that you ran with a shallow crowd but don't want to accept that in any place - particularly as large as LA - one has to take some personal responsibility for life. If everyone around you is fake and materialistic it's not a problem with the city - it's a problem with you and your friends, and you need to work harder to find those who share your interests. I absolutely do feel that environments can help shape communities (I've read a lot of work on this topic, too, which is why I'd like to hear the names of the scholars you're citing), but given that LA has so many different environments I don't think you can generalize so broadly.
If you feel unconnected from society and
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 07-09-2009 at 10:10 AM..
If you're not a city person, why in the world would you expect to be happy living in the second largest city in the United States? That would be like someone saying, "I'm not a small town person, I don't like laid back living. I much prefer big cities and excitement, so I don't understand how anyone can be happy living here in Mobile, Alabama. This is an awful place. Everyone here is delusional."
I am a big city person and therefore, I am happy living in LA. This is not a fantasy for me. LA can be shallow, just like any other big city, but it can also be very real.
If you're not a city person, why in the world would you expect to be happy living in the second largest city in the United States? That would be like someone saying, "I'm not a small town person, I don't like laid back living. I much prefer big cities and excitement, so I don't understand how anyone can be happy living here in Mobile, Alabama. This is an awful place. Everyone here is delusional."
I am a big city person and therefore, I am happy living in LA. This is not a fantasy for me. LA can be shallow, just like any other big city, but it can also be very real.
Great point. It's kind of a nice twist from the many posts on the general city forums, though, where poster after poster says something like "I hate LA because I hate suburbs. I'm a city person, and LA isn't a 'real' city."
Then there are also the people who romanticize small towns as being more "authentic" than cities, too; people may personally be happier in one environment or other, but you can find shallow or real places in both places.
Maybe this is the wrong forum to have debates in. Most of the things I read, and studied in college are not generally things I bring up in everyday conversation. But I don't see why I can't be allowed to talk about them here. And if its not something you're interested in, just ignore it. You have your perspective, I have mine. But I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning people's perspectives. Isn't that what discourse is about? If the only thing people ever did was validate your perspective, how boring would that be?
When the war started some were all for it. Some not. Just imagine if the ones who were against it were too afraid to say anything for fear of invalidating the others perspective. Don't talk about war casualties, don't talk about American materialism, don't want to offend anyone.
What would you have me say? That LA is great. LA is beautiful. That I haven't seen kids get lost in gangs and drugs and sucked into the underbelly of LA society? That I haven't seen the homeless people wandering the streets like the walking dead? No. I spent all my days shopping in the novelty shops, sun tanning on the beach, and buying food from the farmer's market. That's what you want me to say. Or its just me. Its just that I couldn't find what made me happy. Whatever works for you.
I've read most your posts, and your psychological take on people who "say" they love LA. I totally understand your take on it, however, you can't honestly think that everyone there secretly is unhappy. I would not compare L.A. to Disney World. If you don't like it there anymore you should research some other areas of the country and maybe find somewhere that fits you. You already know that. I don't know, I guess 32 years in the rust belt armpit of rednecks and nascar has me craving to move somewhere like L.A. that's totally opposite of what I'm used to.
Actually I have been to the Central Coast, which I was going to site as an exception but I was too into my rant on how the wetlands have been destroyed in LA . And there is actually a small amount of wetlands still in that area. I know because I've horse backed through it.
I've been up through Santa Barbara, Pismo, Monterey, Santa Cruz and SF.
In general I prefer nature over big cities. I like being able to go into a city for the art, the entertainment, the culture - but then I like to be able to leave. I like living close to nature and visiting the city - not the other way around.
Long ago, in California, especially Southern California, we decided to let developers plan the developed footprint on our land.
This has resulted in sprawl, little to no greenbelts, no setback design, overdensity in some areas, poor infrastructure, and most importantly sacrificing the quality of life of residents in favor of developmental profits, etc.
The logic was we need it to satisfy the constant growth of our population which comes from local growth, other States, and south of the border.
Planned growth and design would have been much better in the long run. It would have kept pricing higher and added a natural barrier to entry for those looking for a free and easy ride.
People see the chaparral, oak savanna and grasslands and call it "barren" especially the latter two during the summer. They are by no means barren. You'd know that is true rather quickly trying to travel cross country through any one of these three biomes. I pride myself in the fact that I successfully traveled cross country on a half a dozen occasions more than 2 miles through the So Cal chaparral. I challenge anyone to try it.
I think uptown_urbanist said it really, really well.
Lots of people move to LA for different reasons, and have different goals. The city is pretty much everything and be what you want it to be. You have everything here, in terms of topography, culture, and types of people within a culture.
I really think Los Angeles is incredibly stereotyped by middle and upper middle class white America. When many people come here, they find it is nothing like they expected it to be - which can be good or it can be bad depending on what you like and want out of your life. The reality is - it is everything - and only a minute fraction is anything like the stereotype. People move here, move to "the area where you should live" and then find it very stale and boring - which sounds like what you're going through. Time for a change of scene.
If you want to hang out at an overpriced restaurant with mediocre food you can for the "scene." But don't go on and on about how the food sucks in LA. You go to places like that for the scene, not the food. Don't go to LA and hang out on Rodeo Drive for two days then complain that everyone is materialistic and the whole city is "plastic." This stuff happens a lot in my experience.
If you want to be a coinessuour of virtually every type of food you can do it here, and guess who you'll be around? Other people like you...or people who actually come from the place of origin of the food. You can shop for mainstream and odd goods of any kind - at any price point - if you know where to go. You must know where to go. You must discover things for yourself. And if you want to change what "yourself" is, you can do that here, as often as you'd like.
Here's the deal: if you're bored with LA it is not the fault of LA, it is the fault of you. You can solve that by changing who you are in LA or changing the city you live in. It is up to you, but you can probably find what you're looking for here if you open your mind and change your outlook and don't narrowly define what you are and what you represent to such a small segment or culture of the city.
No, I'm not expecting to be convinced by your argument, just want to figure out what exactly it is that you're arguing. A city is not like a theme park because it is not fake. It is real, and LA is real in a very gritty, often unpleasant way. Theme parks are designed to hide all of that, to give people a temporary respite from it. Could you point to one of these many scholars that you're referencing?
I also don't believe that people are any more shallow or one-dimensional than they were in years past. I agree with the poster above who thought that this was a generational thing, or at least something related to your age - I'm getting the impression that you're still fairly young, and at some point it hits most of us that life isn't perfect, probably will never be, and we learn more about ourselves and what we personally need to feel fulfilled.
And, not to really stir the pot, but I believe in another post it was you who said that public transportation was virtually non-existant? Perhaps it was a car-based lifestyle in some of the more car-oriented areas of the city that led you to feel unconnected from others? You reference that people in LA care what kind of car you drive - many of them don't care in the least. I didn't have a car at all. My friends had various models. I didn't care what they drove or didn't drive. I didn't know anyone who did. Your posts only reinforce my impression that you ran with a shallow crowd but don't want to accept that in any place - particularly as large as LA - one has to take some personal responsibility for life. If everyone around you is fake and materialistic it's not a problem with the city - it's a problem with you and your friends, and you need to work harder to find those who share your interests. I absolutely do feel that environments can help shape communities (I've read a lot of work on this topic, too, which is why I'd like to hear the names of the scholars you're citing), but given that LA has so many different environments I don't think you can generalize so broadly.
If you feel unconnected from society and
You're trying to reference my lifestyle for an explanation as to why I feel the way I do. But the fact is, you know little to nothing about me. You can speculate all you want. It makes no difference to me.
But I will give you some writers/philosophers that have in part influenced my perspective: Daniel Quinn, Herbert Marcuse, Plato, Kafka, Jean Baudrillard, Nietzsche, Foucault, and Derrick Jensen. I also read various books on anthropology.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 07-09-2009 at 04:19 PM..
Reason: No commenting on Moderator activity, per T.O.S.
I grew up near the beach and have never seen much of any vegetation in the 44 years I have been around. Could be due to the fact that this is a desert and we import our water in. I have seen plenty of condos and other things built over the years and from what I see those buildings have added beauty to the area. For me the appeal of the beach is the ability to live on the beach. Still not there yet but the goal is to have a beach front home with a view of the Channel Islands off the coast. We do have some amazing beach parks in the Oxnard, Port Hueneme, Ventura area. Plenty to do that doesn't cost much. Just yesterday we had our kids over at Oxnard State Beach grillin some Carne Asada, burgers, and Hot Dogs. The kids played on a very cool playground area built in the format of two pirate ships. They do have plenty of vegetation at that beach, they grew grass and planted trees. The ocean is closeby. That place is a lot of fun and it would be cool to have more of the same at other beaches. Ventura has a similar setup. If you like vegetation it is possible. Just need to plant it. Another cool aspect was the smell of the freshly cut grass. Always loved that smell. Kind of hard to have that at the beach. Most places the homes are too close together to have much of a yard.
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If you don't like it there anymore you should research some other areas of the country and maybe find somewhere that fits you. You already know that. I don't know, I guess 32 years in the rust belt armpit of rednecks and nascar has me craving to move somewhere like L.A. that's totally opposite of what I'm used to.
. And there is actually a small amount of wetlands still in that area. I know because I've horse backed through it. 
