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We were lucky, I grew up in the 40s and 50s. After the second war we bought a place in the city of L.A. but we had an acre of land, complete with about 10 fruit trees and mom grew a garden. those days are long gone, yes. much of Calif especially So Ca is just one tract on top of the next. For those who like this life style Los Angeles is wonderful, for many it is just a bunch of houses, traffic, graffiti and whatever else. I admire the loyalists that defend Los Angeles, that is the way it should be as long as they keep an open mind..Most of us what to think we have chosen the best place to live.
You're trying to reference my lifestyle for an explanation as to why I feel the way I do. But the fact is, you know little to nothing about me. You can speculate all you want. It makes no difference to me.
But I will give you some writers/philosophers that have in part influenced my perspective: Daniel Quinn, Herbert Marcuse, Plato, Kafka, Jean Baudrillard, Nietzsche, Foucault, and Derrick Jensen. I also read various books on anthropology.
I misunderstood. I thought you had some specific leads on authors who have written more specifically on this topic.
I apologize if my "referencing your lifestyle" was wrong, but given your references to clubs, shopping, fancy cars, and the complaints about shallow and materialistic people, I thought that you may have had a bad experience due to surrounding yourself with people who only contributed in negative way to your experience of the city.
Unfortunately I think you'll find that all locations have their pros and cons and that people can be shallow or materialistic anywhere; the trick is to find a place that you like, and with people you enjoy. Volunteering is a great way to meet people, too, and can contribute to a fulfilling life.
Like drshang pointed out, LA is incredibly stereotyped by many people. I think that those who have the highest hopes are the ones who are the most disappointed with the city - they expect it to be perfect, the answer to all their dreams, and then are crushed when the reality doesn't match up. I've lived in enough places to see that there are good and bad elements to everywhere, and to know what I like in a city for me personally. I think some of that just comes through experience and experimentation. You've learned that you don't like living in big cities; that personal knowledge should serve you well. You seem to want a more lush natural environment; that's good to know, too. The more you can figure out what makes you happy and and intellectually stimulated the better chance you will at finding the right place for you. In my case, LA fit very well, for others that choice will be different. (and in our case we're still setting down long-term roots in Minneapolis, because the reality of cost and a desire to be in closer proximity to family sets in as well). Good luck wherever you end up, but don't be dismayed if it takes a few tries to find that right place.
Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 07-09-2009 at 04:33 PM..
Reason: Edited quoted text
We were lucky, I grew up in the 40s and 50s. After the second war we bought a place in the city of L.A. but we had an acre of land, complete with about 10 fruit trees and mom grew a garden. those days are long gone, yes. much of Calif especially So Ca is just one tract on top of the next. For those who like this life style Los Angeles is wonderful, for many it is just a bunch of houses, traffic, graffiti and whatever else. I admire the loyalists that defend Los Angeles, that is the way it should be as long as they keep an open mind..Most of us what to think we have chosen the best place to live.
Nita
I guess the L.A. of the past is the one I have been in search of. Stupid me
Uptown - Thanks for your response. I actually learned a lot in that discussion, and I am glad you were able to share your view point with me. Although I'm sure it was hard, because as you can tell, I have very strong opinions .
Ironically, I plan on visiting LA in the next couple of weeks. But, to be honest, I was dreading making the trip. The only reason I'm going is to visit with friends. I plan to have good time and I will try not to let everything get to me (traffic, smog, etc). I think I may even try to take some pictures of LA while I am there. Put together a nice portrait of the city (from my perspective, of course ).
Anyway, the discussion was nice. I hope you like it in Minneapolis.
In answer to the original question: Because there is no other place for me.
I am married to a black woman and am Salvadoran myself and I have yet to go anywhere else where she and I can live knowing that the audacity of us falling in love and marrying will be tolerated.
We even lived in Santa Maria (in the central coast) for a couple of years and she was treated like crap by the Mexican population there. Nobody ever did much when I was with her but I noticed the stares. The funny thing is that I feel about small towns the way that you feel about Los Angeles; they're nice places to visit but I wouldn't want to live there forever. We used to get truly bored to tears in Santa Maria and ended up coming to L.A. almost every weekend since both our families live here anyway.
The thing is that for those of us who grew up here and lead "normal" lives (meaning we are not somehow tied into the entertainment industry) there's no other place we'd rather be. I'm not an actor or singer or comedian or anything like that; I'm a blue collar worker who breaks his back every day to earn enough for the mortgage but I sure enjoy living in a place like this.
Every complaint that anyone has about this city is part of the reason that I like it here.
People complain that it's too large and spread out and that it's not really a city but a cluster of cities that all fall under the same county. Well, that's what makes it great. Each city is different in its architecture and the people who live there and each one has something different to offer in the way of food and entertainment. My wife and I also love to go for drives so getting there is half the fun.
People complain that it's expensive to live here but that's what drives so many of us to work harder so that we can achieve some kind of financial success. Those who fail or choose to be lazy get to live in the worst areas but that's the same anywhere.
The homeless? They're here because we have more shelters than most major cities and because they can actually sleep outside at night without having to worry that they will freeze to death even in the coldest times of the winter. Can you say that about NY? Chicago? Arizona?
The gangs. Well, there's nothing good I can say about that other than it motivates people like me to get the hell out of bad neighborhoods while they still can.
The culture. I'm really sick of hearing about how L.A. has no culture. L.A. has had culture since it was Mexico and has only gained more and more since the beginning of the 20th century. Our history shows that we were once the mecca (not the birthplace) of jazz music and we're still the mecca for artists, playwrites, authors and singers. We have the most diverse community in the world with our "little" Tokyo, Ethiopia, Thailand, Koreatown, Chinatown and the "hispanic" and black communities as well. Our museums are top notch and we have a concert hall almost in every city. There is literally at least one Shakespeare play being put on a night somewhere in L.A. How much more culture do you want? Hell, a play has to be successful in L.A. before it even becomes a candidate for broadway.
But, in the end, what keeps me here is what I stated in the beginning of the post and it sums up to the people. Yes, there are still clusters of intolerant people in Los Angeles, I understand that but it's not the same as being in a place where the majority does their best to make you feel uncomfortable simply for having been born with brown skin.
Name me another city (city, I don't want to live in the wilderness) that has the same great weather and all that I stated above and I might consider living there but, in the U.S, it just doesn't exist.
I guess the L.A. of the past is the one I have been in search of. Stupid me
i am sure some of what you are hoping to find still exists. Remember, for those of us who do realize what it was like 2 or 3 decades ago the new Ca is not that great, for those who did not know the days of the 50 and 60s it is still a paradisse.
In answer to the original question: Because there is no other place for me.
I read your post and I agree that LA is more tolerant than most other places. But I think you are limiting yourself by saying that there are no other places, period. And even in LA there is racism - although people are not so obvious about it there and often censor themselves.
I am a mix of Native American, Puerto Rican and Mexican. I have dated other races, and it is generally not an issue for me. Maybe I'm not the type to really think about it. Or maybe it just doesn't bother me as much as others. I was raised in a very tolerant household - and we were always taught to respect others and not to discriminate. Because of that I have a very diverse family. Diversity was normal for me growing up. I have relatives who are part Chinese, part Caucasian, etc.
You will find ignorant people everywhere you go. It is the way the world is. But I don't think you should totally cut off the rest of the world except LA because of it. I am currently living in the Central Valley. Yes people are a little backwards and nutty here, but for the most part they are like everyone else. When I go out and people look at me, I naturally assume its because they think I'm attractive .
My point is, don't use racism as an excuse to stay in LA. If you like it there, fine. But there are plenty of other tolerant places.
Last edited by AllAboutEve; 07-09-2009 at 11:51 PM..
I read your post and I agree that LA is more tolerant than most other places. But I think you are limiting yourself by saying that there are no other places, period. And even in LA there is racism - although people are not so obvious about it there and often censor themselves.
I am a mix of Native American, Puerto Rican and Mexican. I have dated other races, and it is generally not an issue for me. Maybe I'm not the type to really think about it. Or maybe it just doesn't bother me as much as others. I was raised in a very tolerant household - and we were always taught to respect others and not to discriminate. Because of that I have a very diverse family. Diversity was normal for me growing up. I have relatives who are part Chinese, part Caucasian, etc.
You will find ignorant people everywhere you go. It is the way the world is. But I don't think you should totally cut off the rest of the world except LA because of it. I am currently living in the Central Valley. Yes people are a little backwards and nutty here, but for the most part they are like everyone else. When I go out and people look at me, I naturally assume its because they think I'm attractive .
My point is, don't use racism as an excuse to stay in LA. If you like it there, fine. But there are plenty of other tolerant places.
I come from the same type of family and so does my wife. It wasn't in L.A. that she and I ever had a problem and, like I stated before, I understand that there are still racists in L.A. Hell, some of the kids that I went to school with ended up being racist against everyone else that didn't look like them. But that doesn't change the fact that in the east coast people actually have the nerve to ask you why you can't stick with your own race (I've been to Chicago and that actually happened to me when a black man saw me holding hands with the girl I was dating then who was also black) and any small town already isn't welcoming to outsiders based on them being outsiders alone and they make it worse when you add different skin hues into the mix.
When I lived in Santa Maria I saw the people who were born and raised there being very polite towards one another no matter what their "race" was but then there were the immigrants who went there to work in the fields and they were a trully ignorant lot. Those were the ones who treated my wife the worst. But there were also the confederate flags that I saw hanging in certain neighborhoods in nearby Lompoc as well as the guy who threatened to shoot me after calling me a "f-ing Mexican".
There is a state penitentiary in Lompoc so there were plenty of fresh-out-of-the-pen ignoramuses with "black power" or "brown power" or "WP" (isn't it funny that even in jail it's still not considered cool to be a white racist) tattooed on their arms in Lompoc as well and those folks drove to Santa Maria on a daily basis to work or- worse- play.
L.A. has everything that I stated in my post but most importantly it has my wife's family and my family.
My wife and I are old and mature enough to realize that friends can come and go but when you have a good family you better make sure to appreciate them and we learned our lesson by moving away from them.
We simply weren't happy and don't see ourselves being happy anywhere else. The whole race issue is not an excuse; simply a fact. I certainly don't ever want to experience it again and you can bet anything important to you that I won't put my wife through it again.
Other cities or towns can be great but it's the people who ruin them. I loved Chicago as a city. The architecture and the museums where great but the people there were really segragated based on skin hue when I went (it was in the 90s so I can't pressume to know what it's like now) and, like I said before, they actually have the nerve to make comments to a perfect stranger about who they're dating.
Keep in mind that the race thing and our families being here are the two major reasons why we stay in L.A. but there's also the long list of other things that I mentioned in my earlier post like the weather, the things to do, the places to see and finally the overall attitude of the people.
I don't hang out in gang infested areas and I hardly ever have a reason to go near skid row but I have lived in both and that helps me appreciate what I've achieved by getting out of those neighborhoods.
Those neighborhoods also gave me the incentive to find a smaller town to settle down in but, just like you with L.A., I found out that small towns just don't do it for me. Put aside all I said earlier about the people in Santa Maria and you still have a place where you run out of things to do in the first year and then run out of things to do in the surrounding towns the second year.
Again, I grew up here, went to school here, got a regular job here, met my wife here, have my family here and am happy here. I get that you're not and I'm not putting your opinion down but, just like you told another poster, you don't know anything about me other than what you've read so don't assume that I'm here out of fear or stubborness. This is simply the best possible scenario for me to be happy in. Sorry it's not for you.
i am sure some of what you are hoping to find still exists. Remember, for those of us who do realize what it was like 2 or 3 decades ago the new Ca is not that great, for those who did not know the days of the 50 and 60s it is still a paradisse.
Nita
Well even the pictures from the 50's, 60's and early 70's look much better than the LA I know today. Seemed like people were enjoying their lives in a place they loved, now it seems many are just surviving so they can be in LA/CA.
I don't know, I do love it out there, but I really am starting to have doubts about trying to live there again. As I said before, I think the SoCal in my dreams is the SoCal of the past.
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