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The average person in Southern California spends 18 minutes outdoors per day during the week and 47 minutes outdoors per day during the weekend. For the vast majority of Angelenos, they wake up, get ready for work, sit in their car in traffic, walk to their office, work indoors, sit inside at lunch, walk back to their car, drive home in traffic, eat dinner, and watch TV/go online/watch movies/other indoor activities. The number of times a person visits the beach decreases in proportion to the square of the distance they live from the beach.
Houses are in the $400/sqft price range.
Ninety percent of LAUSD schools are unacceptable so now you need to pay for private schools.
Property taxes on a $700,000 home are close to $8000/year (to help pay for LAUSD that your kids aren't attending). Want to live in Ventura County with good schools? Well you better have a cool $920,000 for a 2200 sqft house (our numbers from when we left back in June 06).
In Colorado (where the job market is at least equivalent per capita to SoCal's) housing is about $200/sqft. Salaries for engineers in Colorado are about ten percent less (I checked.) Traffic is much less, practically a non-issue.
OK, Socal has "A+" weather, but Colorado has "B+" weather. (I lived in SoCal 45 years and just spent a brutal winter in Colorado, living between Denver and Colorado Springs, and my argument is still the same.) It is just as sunny and the snow (most of the time but not this past year) is pleasant and not long lasting. The frequency of clouds/snow in Colorado is about the same as clouds/rain in SoCal. Admittedly, it is more difficult for parents with kids in that there are several days, maybe 10-20, in winter when it is just too cold to go outside and play at the park. OK, it’s a trade off.
So, how much do those 184 minutes per week of near perfect weather cost? (I’ll take a snow storm over Santa Ana winds any day.) That's why we moved. We did the math. Took our equity and ran. Don't laugh, The same argument applies for Huntsville, AL: The second highest ratio of income to housing costs in the nation. Weather is the ONLY thing going for LA. Visit other areas around the country. There are just about as many ethnic restaurants, entertainment venues, clubs, alternative lifestyle opportunities, etc as there are in LA. With the internet, you don’t need (and shouldn’t use) elaborate shopping centers. In reality, how often do you really frequent the truly unique things about LA? How often? Been to a Dodger game lately? Do you want you teenage kids going to see bands in Hollywood (like I did back in the 70s and 80s)? Is it worth $400/sqft?
I lived in Denver/Boulder/Colorado Springs for a total of about 7-8 years spread out. I moved there when I was 19 to go to college and my last stint there was a few years ago after being in and out of California. Oh, and guess what, you're from California? They hate you. Coloradoans DESPISE Californians. (I am not originally from CA, but I saw the extreme hatred when I lived there). I have never seen another state in the union with "NATIVE" bumper stickers, and YOU know what I am talking about.
PROS:
EVERYTHING: The front range IS one of the most "sunny" areas in the continental USA. I will give you that, I did the research when I moved out of PA, and I think Colorado get's OVER 300 days a year that are classified as "sunny." Also, I am an avid rock climber, and Colorado has some seriously good "big wall" climbs, and more climbing in a hundred sq. miles than all of California combined. There's some seriously good views as well. Summer rains (in July when it showers for a couple of hours every afternoon). Boulder is/was filled with interesting people, no matter who slags it down. The Flatirons are an amazing view as well. You can get huge snowfalls, and no one has to go to work! Yay! And the snow generally melts quickly in the spring and fall; sometimes melting the next day! Very cool! No helmet law = greater freedom for motorcyclists.
CONS:
WORK/PAY: Yeah, you talked about square footage. Well, have you considered pay rates??? I work in the entertainment industry. I make about double what I would make living in Colorado. Why? Because since there's NO companies there making tv, film and video games, the ones that ARE making entertainment titles KNOW that you don't have any options, and they skrew you out of good salaries. Whereas, in Los Angeles, competition is peak. Everyone's trying to keep the best talent on board so they are willing to pay a premium. So for my situation, your $400/sqft : $200/sqft consideration doesn't hold much water.
You wanna be in the music industry in Colorado? Forget it.
You want to act or perform in Colorado? Forget it.
There is VERY little "entertainment industry" there.
GIRLS: Now, guessing from your age, my next complaint won't be a big deal to you, but Colorado is a freagin' "John's-Manville" state. ie. a Sausage Fest. I think the guy:girl ratio there is like 2:1, it was probably closer to 4:1 when I lived in the 'Springs before deployment to Iraq (consider the 5 military installations there). And the women? They can be rough. Since they know they don't have to wear a bikini for 9 months of the year, they let their bodies go south. Also, there's higher demand, so they don't have to look good. Try that in Hollywood. Heh. Don't get me wrong, there's more to a woman than her looks, but cut me a break!!! I always had girlfriends when I was there, but I always felt like I was settling; and that the wasn't their fault, it was the locale and what was socially acceptable.
TRAFFIC: HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Don't even get me started! Traffic is worse in the Denver metro area than LA, hands down. I will take LA traffic over i-25 ANY day. What a nightmare! Living in Castle Rock (or Sedalia, or where ever you live) getting into Denver is no easy feat. Going through the tech center (i-25 / c470 exchange) is worse than 405/101 exchange, not per capita mind you, because the 405/101 exchange moves more cars per hour than any other intersection in the world. (Or is it the 405/10 exchange?) Who cares... the fact is traffic in that town is horrific. There's usually only ONE pipeline to get anywhere. Ugh. Hwy 36 to/from Boulder- yikes. And on a motorcycle, you're STUCK! Lane sharing is not permitted, and you can be impounded for it.
SNOW: Yeah. Fava beans to that business. I ride my motorcycle(s) about 340 days a year here, probably more. I rode my motorcycles maybe 2/3's of that in Colorado. And had to deal with snow tires on the car... extra clothes for summer winter, being sick more often (colds, and whatnot), all kinds of issues.
SMOG: When I was 24 I got a job working for an "international broadcasting network" (trust me, it was not as exciting [or high paying] as it sounds). They gave me an office in the penthouse of a building in Greenwood Village (tech center). I was so excited when I got there, because I had a door to the roof from MY office. Wow! Until I saw the insane amount of smog between the tech center and downtown. Granted the tech center is about 13 miles from "ground zero." Visibility was usually "brown cloud." Currently, I am less than 6 miles from downtown LA, and there was ONE day in the past year that I came in and couldn't see the buildings downtown due to smog. If I work in our upstairs office, I can see the beach from here as well.
You make fun of California's "marine layer" well, I make fun of Colorado's "inversion." At least the marine layer burns off around noon...
~
Charles, I didn't type this to put you down or discredit your experiences. I wrote all this out, because different people have different experiences. Other people who come to this site should see the good side of LA. Yes, it's not for everyone- you're right. But it's no hell hole. Well, not for some... ask me again in 10 years and I have a couple of properties, and condos cost what they cost in Manhattan (NYC). Ask me how I feel then, maybe I will have changed my mind. I keep thinking Miami would be a nice place to end up... Maybe San Diego. heh For now though, I Love Los Angeles.
I really appreciated that last post since I've lived in Colorado (Boulder) 16 years now and will be moving out of state soon (hopefully to LA or other SoCal spot).
Could you please tell us about your career/job in the entertainment industry, I would appreciate it. What part of the industry? What do you basically do for a living in the entertainment industry in LA?
3 hours each way? do you live in Riverside and work in Ventura?
Nope!!
Palmdale to LAX, less than 70 miles. 7 years ago it took about 1 hour 15min...
The Worst of it is the 5 and 14 at Santa Clarita (really bad planning there) and of course the Sepulveda pass.
People with less than a six figure income are only surviving in So Cal
I have lived in San Diego since September 2006. I came here from Florida to complete my last graduate internship, and stayed because I found a great place 2 blocks from Mission Bay for $1050/month and have a roommate. Yes, I pay $500 a month to live in SD!!!! 2 bedrooms, one bath! And it's nice...new carpet, tile, paint, tub, fixtures, floors. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones! In this way, if I decide to stay I can save $ for a down payment on a home. However, taxes are so high that once you actually get a mortgage it gets tough unless you make a nice income, have a significent other who contributes, or have a roommate or two to cover expenses. There seem to be a lot of people here who never grew up near a beach, so therefore they love it here. News flash: There are cheaper places to live with beaches and culture!!!! I have lived in them! I bought a 3 bed/2 1/2 bath townhome in Ft. Lauderdale in 2005 for $262,000 and continue to keep it rented to graduate students there. How the young professionals make it here....I have no idea! Good luck to them though!
It's nice here, but I'd rather retire at 65 than 80! And I don't want to move to New Mexico or Arizona (like many retirees here) afterward! So Florida will most likely be home within the next year or so. For those who gripe about hurricanes: none in 2006, with the bad years being 2004 and 2005. Nothing catastrophic since Hurricane Andrew in 1992 and that basically wiped out trailer parks near the Everglades in western Miami. There's always gonna be a wildfire, earthquake, or hurricane somewhere.
this made me think of a girlfriend that lived just like that. she died of cancer at forty-one alone, no mate. It was very sad (always leased the nicest cars though). At the same time I guess she couldn't of taken it with her either. So if one doesn't have to live through old age, i guess this is the only scenario in which living with no safety net works--dying young.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newportbeachsmostwanted
It's the truth. Well said, kgee..
I know a 27 year-old making $500/ week and spending $500/month on a new Lexus IS300 lease..
It looks nice, but it's not very smart.... How will he ever really own a car like that with zero savings?
I really appreciated that last post since I've lived in Colorado (Boulder) 16 years now and will be moving out of state soon (hopefully to LA or other SoCal spot).
Could you please tell us about your career/job in the entertainment industry, I would appreciate it. What part of the industry? What do you basically do for a living in the entertainment industry in LA?
Thanks!
I work with directors before they film sequences to help save them money. I am an artist, visually speaking that is. I do computer animation to help visualize shots, maximize creativity, and stop 'waste' for shot intricate FX shots.
I lived in Denver/Boulder/Colorado Springs for a total of about 7-8 years spread out. I moved there when I was 19 to go to college and my last stint there was a few years ago after being in and out of California. Oh, and guess what, you're from California? They hate you. Coloradoans DESPISE Californians. (I am not originally from CA, but I saw the extreme hatred when I lived there). I have never seen another state in the union with "NATIVE" bumper stickers, and YOU know what I am talking about.
PROS:
EVERYTHING: The front range IS one of the most "sunny" areas in the continental USA. I will give you that, I did the research when I moved out of PA, and I think Colorado get's OVER 300 days a year that are classified as "sunny." Also, I am an avid rock climber, and Colorado has some seriously good "big wall" climbs, and more climbing in a hundred sq. miles than all of California combined. There's some seriously good views as well. Summer rains (in July when it showers for a couple of hours every afternoon). Boulder is/was filled with interesting people, no matter who slags it down. The Flatirons are an amazing view as well. You can get huge snowfalls, and no one has to go to work! Yay! And the snow generally melts quickly in the spring and fall; sometimes melting the next day! Very cool! No helmet law = greater freedom for motorcyclists.
CONS:
WORK/PAY: Yeah, you talked about square footage. Well, have you considered pay rates??? I work in the entertainment industry. I make about double what I would make living in Colorado. Why? Because since there's NO companies there making tv, film and video games, the ones that ARE making entertainment titles KNOW that you don't have any options, and they skrew you out of good salaries. Whereas, in Los Angeles, competition is peak. Everyone's trying to keep the best talent on board so they are willing to pay a premium. So for my situation, your $400/sqft : $200/sqft consideration doesn't hold much water.
You wanna be in the music industry in Colorado? Forget it.
You want to act or perform in Colorado? Forget it.
There is VERY little "entertainment industry" there.
GIRLS: Now, guessing from your age, my next complaint won't be a big deal to you, but Colorado is a freagin' "John's-Manville" state. ie. a Sausage Fest. I think the guy:girl ratio there is like 2:1, it was probably closer to 4:1 when I lived in the 'Springs before deployment to Iraq (consider the 5 military installations there). And the women? They can be rough. Since they know they don't have to wear a bikini for 9 months of the year, they let their bodies go south. Also, there's higher demand, so they don't have to look good. Try that in Hollywood. Heh. Don't get me wrong, there's more to a woman than her looks, but cut me a break!!! I always had girlfriends when I was there, but I always felt like I was settling; and that the wasn't their fault, it was the locale and what was socially acceptable.
TRAFFIC: HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Don't even get me started! Traffic is worse in the Denver metro area than LA, hands down. I will take LA traffic over i-25 ANY day. What a nightmare! Living in Castle Rock (or Sedalia, or where ever you live) getting into Denver is no easy feat. Going through the tech center (i-25 / c470 exchange) is worse than 405/101 exchange, not per capita mind you, because the 405/101 exchange moves more cars per hour than any other intersection in the world. (Or is it the 405/10 exchange?) Who cares... the fact is traffic in that town is horrific. There's usually only ONE pipeline to get anywhere. Ugh. Hwy 36 to/from Boulder- yikes. And on a motorcycle, you're STUCK! Lane sharing is not permitted, and you can be impounded for it.
SNOW: Yeah. Fava beans to that business. I ride my motorcycle(s) about 340 days a year here, probably more. I rode my motorcycles maybe 2/3's of that in Colorado. And had to deal with snow tires on the car... extra clothes for summer winter, being sick more often (colds, and whatnot), all kinds of issues.
SMOG: When I was 24 I got a job working for an "international broadcasting network" (trust me, it was not as exciting [or high paying] as it sounds). They gave me an office in the penthouse of a building in Greenwood Village (tech center). I was so excited when I got there, because I had a door to the roof from MY office. Wow! Until I saw the insane amount of smog between the tech center and downtown. Granted the tech center is about 13 miles from "ground zero." Visibility was usually "brown cloud." Currently, I am less than 6 miles from downtown LA, and there was ONE day in the past year that I came in and couldn't see the buildings downtown due to smog. If I work in our upstairs office, I can see the beach from here as well.
You make fun of California's "marine layer" well, I make fun of Colorado's "inversion." At least the marine layer burns off around noon...
~
Charles, I didn't type this to put you down or discredit your experiences. I wrote all this out, because different people have different experiences. Other people who come to this site should see the good side of LA. Yes, it's not for everyone- you're right. But it's no hell hole. Well, not for some... ask me again in 10 years and I have a couple of properties, and condos cost what they cost in Manhattan (NYC). Ask me how I feel then, maybe I will have changed my mind. I keep thinking Miami would be a nice place to end up... Maybe San Diego. heh For now though, I Love Los Angeles.
Colorado can be a really tough shift in attitude and way of life for most Angelinos. And you're right, the nativism is STRONG. You've got the easy, relaxed, open-minded way of life in SoCal and then you've got, well, then you've got Denver which is pretty much everything SoCal is not.
just dont move to miami. 2 years ago i did just that.
i thought i would get away from the high cost of living in california and move somewhere i thought would be less expensive and better.
boy was i wrong.
sure its expensive but the people are so intolerable here that it makes it hell.
I didn't want to quote your entire post regarding living in Colorado vs. living in SoCal, but I did want to commend you for giving what I thought was a balanced, realistic view. I've been to the Colorado forums and it seems that many of the people posting there are California transplants who can't rave enough about how much they love living in Colorado, especially since they were able to buy a home there cash with the proceeds of selling their California homes (the #1 reason they cited for why they love Colorado). In fact, I'm very hard-pressed to find any negative posts in the Colorado forums.
Then I read posts like yours. There was also a post from a woman who lived in Colorado Springs and returned here to SoCal because she said that jobs in Colorado paid quite a bit less than here, as well as it seemed (to her) that the state wasn't very progressive compared to here. She also mentioned how it sucked to drive there in the winter time. She went on to mention how even though housing was cheaper, that other things such as groceries were the same as here, if not higher...which brings me to my next point. I find it extremely hard to believe (I've posted this many times both in this forum and in the Colorado forums) that with all the transplanted Californians living in Colorado, that there is not even one Trader Joe's store in the entire state! If that makes me a "fan boy" of TJ's, so be it. To me, having no Trader Joe's store in any location is a deal-breaker.
I love LA. There is no other town like it in the world. I grew up in Wisconsin/Minnesota area and well, let's just say that -15 weather isn't my cup of tea anymore. I wouldn't say I'm struggling because I don't buy stupid ****. Simple as that. I don't really feel like getting into the details of my financial life but the crazy/random stories that I have over the past five years are amazing. These are stories and experiences that I could never have experienced in the Midwest or anywhere else for that matter. Plus there's no Fred62's or LaCabana in Wisconsin. I love it out here. I'm moving from Van Nuys to Santa Monica this month and I'm sooooo excited. And I just started up a Roth IRA to boot.
Work hard and play harder. Don't be lazy. Don't be stupid.
Although if I had to relocate, I'd probably choose Colorado because, I'm a die hard skier. Always have been. Always will be.
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At least the marine layer burns off around noon...
For now though, I Love Los Angeles.
Yo yo yo, JackSparrow:
People with less than a six figure income are only surviving in So Cal
How will he ever really own a car like that with zero savings?
If that makes me a "fan boy" of TJ's, so be it. 
To me, having no Trader Joe's store in any location is a deal-breaker.
