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Hi, I recently relocated to the Bay Area from the midwest. I moved here for music, design, and art as well as to have better weather. I'm currently living on the Peninsula and I'm noticing that unless you're in "the city", there's not a whole lot going on. It's mostly high end commuter suburbs with very few artists and musicians living here. I do have 2 children going to school here and a spouse who's in education, so living in the city is not really in the cards right now.
For some reason, LA seems like it may be a better overall fit than the Bay Area for the arts, and that I might be able to find a more affordable middle class area with good schools for my kids, but also be around other people that are in my situation (musicians, artists, designers), and for my spouse, educators. Plus, I could get a little better year round weather.
Don't get me wrong, San Francisco is a stunning, and wonderful city with many things to do and the area is incredibly beautiful, but I'm wondering if LA would fit my situation better? Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I lived in both for a number of years (SF city itself for 4 years, LA for 2 years where I am now).
I know where you're coming from. I worked a corporate job up in SF, but have always been actively involved in all things artistic my whole life (musician, actor, producer, writer, art/design, and worked semi-professionally in some of these at one time or another) -- and in my view LA has a *lot* more of this.
There is just a larger community of musicians, filmmakers, photographers, visual artists, etc. here in LA -- both amateur and professional all the way up to the highest level. The Bay Area is tiny in comparison.
I always found SF/Bay Area to be a far more amazing city to *visit* than to live, whereas I found LA to be the opposite (not the most tourist/visitor friendly, but in my opinion a more dynamic city to live in for those who have some sort of artistic thing going on in their lives).
With that larger, more dynamic artistic/creative community though comes some of the "negative" things that Bay Area folks (and anyone who loves to hate LA) may tell you -- that it's a shark tank, people here hustle, competitive, flakey unless they can get something from you, etc. Which is all true. But with that "negative" energy comes a positive one too -- it's simply a place where the creative/artistic types are simply more ambitious - it may not be their full-time income, but it's not just a hobby either. And that can be a good thing too because here in LA if you want to get involved in anything artistic -- music, filmmaking, design, etc you do have to step up your game/talent/work ethic/production because even though there may be a lot of wannabes here, there's also a TON of incredibly talented folks in just about any artistic thing compared to anywhere else. And being able to pursue whatever your artistic/creative thing here can be incredibly humbling yet inspiring at the same time. Being around the incredibly inspiring talent and the real ugly realities of the 'industry' in my experience has been great because it completely de-mystifies the "magic" - which may be heartbreaking to some, but motivating for me because it pushes me to WORK at it. De-mystifying it forces me to really see it for what it is, and is the true test for whether I *love* it for its own sake, or not.
Even though I don't think of myself as anything special in what I do, I do love it here. Some people in LA may *hate* it that everyone from the Starbucks barista to the corporate lawyer moonlights as a photographer, musician, actor, writer, etc but I find it great because it's one of the few cities I've ever lived where you don't have to *explain* why you are so obsessed with this film/music/book/theater/dance/art project that you're working on outside of "the day job".
In my experience, I found the Bay Area to be a community dominated by engineers, MBAs, lawyers, and the Pottery Barn yuppie set -- nothing wrong with them as they're perfectly friendly, but certainly not the kind of people who harbor much of an artistic side beyond "consuming" it (as opposed to producing and engaging in it as an activity). And I do speak from someone who on the surface if you'd just look at my corporate/work resume I'd be your typical yuppie. There's certainly a fair share of the yuppie corporate set here in LA, but they don't dominate the overall community or culture here like they do in the Bay Area.
The Bay Area has one of the prettiest exteriors of any city in the US, but underneath it there isn't as much going on as its exterior suggests. Conversely, LA can have a pretty ugly exterior (or at least a bad reputation that precedes it), but has a lot more going on both great and bad underneath that initial industrial facade. The irony is that Bay Area residents tend to portray LA as shallow, when LA is the city where more than meets the eye.
As for living costs, LA certainly isn't cheap, but it is less expensive than the Bay Area, and there's more living options as well in my opinion.
And my opinions are based on my experiences living in SF itself. Like another poster said, you may want to give the East Bay a shot, but again if you're looking at the bigger picture, it seems like LA will have a lot more to offer overall when it comes to what you want.
Last edited by redturtle; 03-21-2010 at 01:55 AM..
I lived in both for a number of years (SF city itself for 4 years, LA for 2 years where I am now).
I know where you're coming from. I worked a corporate job up in SF, but have always been actively involved in all things artistic my whole life (musician, actor, producer, writer, art/design, and worked semi-professionally in some of these at one time or another) -- and in my view LA has a *lot* more of this.
There is just a larger community of musicians, filmmakers, photographers, visual artists, etc. here in LA -- both amateur and professional all the way up to the highest level. The Bay Area is tiny in comparison.
I always found SF/Bay Area to be a far more amazing city to *visit* than to live, whereas I found LA to be the opposite (not the most tourist/visitor friendly, but in my opinion a more dynamic city to live in for those who have some sort of artistic thing going on in their lives).
With that larger, more dynamic artistic/creative community though comes some of the "negative" things that Bay Area folks (and anyone who loves to hate LA) may tell you -- that it's a shark tank, people here hustle, competitive, flakey unless they can get something from you, etc. Which is all true. But with that "negative" energy comes a positive one too -- it's simply a place where the creative/artistic types are simply more ambitious - it may not be their full-time income, but it's not just a hobby either. And that can be a good thing too because here in LA if you want to get involved in anything artistic -- music, filmmaking, design, etc you do have to step up your game/talent/work ethic/production because even though there may be a lot of wannabes here, there's also a TON of incredibly talented folks in just about any artistic thing compared to anywhere else. And being able to pursue whatever your artistic/creative thing here can be incredibly humbling yet inspiring at the same time. Being around the incredibly inspiring talent and the real ugly realities of the 'industry' in my experience has been great because it completely de-mystifies the "magic" - which may be heartbreaking to some, but motivating for me because it pushes me to WORK at it. De-mystifying it forces me to really see it for what it is, and is the true test for whether I *love* it for its own sake, or not.
Even though I don't think of myself as anything special in what I do, I do love it here. Some people in LA may *hate* it that everyone from the Starbucks barista to the corporate lawyer moonlights as a photographer, musician, actor, writer, etc but I find it great because it's one of the few cities I've ever lived where you don't have to *explain* why you are so obsessed with this film/music/book/theater/dance/art project that you're working on outside of "the day job".
In my experience, I found the Bay Area to be a community dominated by engineers, MBAs, lawyers, and the Pottery Barn yuppie set -- nothing wrong with them as they're perfectly friendly, but certainly not the kind of people who harbor much of an artistic side beyond "consuming" it (as opposed to producing and engaging in it as an activity). And I do speak from someone who on the surface if you'd just look at my corporate/work resume I'd be your typical yuppie. There's certainly a fair share of the yuppie corporate set here in LA, but they don't dominate the overall community or culture here like they do in the Bay Area.
The Bay Area has one of the prettiest exteriors of any city in the US, but underneath it there isn't as much going on as its exterior suggests. Conversely, LA can have a pretty ugly exterior (or at least a bad reputation that precedes it), but has a lot more going on both great and bad underneath that initial industrial facade. The irony is that Bay Area residents tend to portray LA as shallow, when LA is the city where more than meets the eye.
As for living costs, LA certainly isn't cheap, but it is less expensive than the Bay Area, and there's more living options as well in my opinion.
And my opinions are based on my experiences living in SF itself. Like another poster said, you may want to give the East Bay a shot, but again if you're looking at the bigger picture, it seems like LA will have a lot more to offer overall when it comes to what you want.
Great post! This really helps with those issues that I just couldn't put my finger on.
Character, history, museums, culture, beauty, cooler weather, away from Hollyweird, close to the wine country, Big Sir, Carmel, Monterey, Lake Tahoe, incredible restaurants and one of the most beautiful cities in the country with amazing architecture and less star struck movie star wanna be's than L.A.
To offer a contrasting opinion to osuzana: Being close to Monterey and the foggier, cooler weather in SF is great (although LA has its great day/weekend trips, too, and sometimes in SF I found myself really missing the sun), but I've actually found LA to be a much better city for museums. I think of them as about even when it comes to character, history, architecture, and culture (although my field is historical/cultural-related, and I would give the professional edge to LA). There are more movie star wannabes in LA, of course, but it's easy to avoid them, just like SF has its share of annoying wannabes of different kinds. Food-wise, check out this month's copy of Saveur to convince you that you're not going to be losing out on anything on that front if you make the move. You'll be moving from one great food region to another. California overall is pretty wonderful on that front.
I very much agree with redturtle that LA has a lot more to it than meets the eye. It's a tough city to visit, and it gets hit with all sorts of stereotypes. If you come looking for the stereotypes you'll find them, but given the immense size and sheer number of people and neighborhoods it's also just as easy to avoid them.
People seem to have really strong opinions one way or the other about LA, but I've also met many people who moved to LA reluctantly (that would have been me...), hated it initially (that wasn't me; was shocked to discover I really liked it; it's a weird, quirky place, and I like weird), but after living in the area long enough discovered that they had fallen in love with the city. I think it's a tougher place to really "get" than cities like New York or even San Francisco where some of the appeal -- including aesthetic -- are so much more obvious and on the surface. In some ways that might make it more difficult to fall in love with it on first sight (unlike the first sight of the Golden Gate Bridge, for example) but it also makes it a fascinating place to live. There's never any excuse to get bored.
To offer a contrasting opinion to osuzana: Being close to Monterey and the foggier, cooler weather in SF is great (although LA has its great day/weekend trips, too, and sometimes in SF I found myself really missing the sun), but I've actually found LA to be a much better city for museums. I think of them as about even when it comes to character, history, architecture, and culture (although my field is historical/cultural-related, and I would give the professional edge to LA). There are more movie star wannabes in LA, of course, but it's easy to avoid them, just like SF has its share of annoying wannabes of different kinds. Food-wise, check out this month's copy of Saveur to convince you that you're not going to be losing out on anything on that front if you make the move. You'll be moving from one great food region to another. California overall is pretty wonderful on that front.
I very much agree with redturtle that LA has a lot more to it than meets the eye. It's a tough city to visit, and it gets hit with all sorts of stereotypes. If you come looking for the stereotypes you'll find them, but given the immense size and sheer number of people and neighborhoods it's also just as easy to avoid them.
People seem to have really strong opinions one way or the other about LA, but I've also met many people who moved to LA reluctantly (that would have been me...), hated it initially (that wasn't me; was shocked to discover I really liked it; it's a weird, quirky place, and I like weird), but after living in the area long enough discovered that they had fallen in love with the city. I think it's a tougher place to really "get" than cities like New York or even San Francisco where some of the appeal -- including aesthetic -- are so much more obvious and on the surface. In some ways that might make it more difficult to fall in love with it on first sight (unlike the first sight of the Golden Gate Bridge, for example) but it also makes it a fascinating place to live. There's never any excuse to get bored.
uptown_urbanist
Do you think that some people's negative attitudes toward Los Angeles is because of television and movies? I get blown away when some people suggest that even Laker fans are superficial and only attend games to be chased by paparazzi. Some of the most loyal basketball fans are people like Jack Nickolson, Adam Sandler, Snopp Dog, etc. who love the sport. Also all the tv shows like "Entourage" give the impression that Hollywood is just a bunch of rich actors who smoke marijuana all day and go to parties with nude women in swimming pools [actually that sounds very cool
I think LA gets a bad rap because of how it is portrayed in movies. Also some people are envious of Los Angeles.
Character, history, museums, culture, beauty, cooler weather, away from Hollyweird, close to the wine country, Big Sir, Carmel, Monterey, Lake Tahoe, incredible restaurants and one of the most beautiful cities in the country with amazing architecture and less star struck movie star wanna be's than L.A.
You've basically proven my point of the kind of smug, holier-than-thou sentiment that I used to hear when I lived in the Bay Area -- an automatic default to all the external things like this (and an immediate knee-jerk "LA sucks! because it's Hollywood"). But when you get beyond the initial aesthetics of the Bay Area, there isn't a whole lot there for those who are more artistically inclined.
Again, all the things you listed as great things about the Bay Area make it an amazing tourist destination - lots to see. But take the beautiful Golden Gate Bridge - great for tourist pictures, but your view of it changes very quickly when you have to commute across it every day. And while some may like foggy weather in SF, I frankly hated it - the first few weeks it may feel like "hey, with all these Edwardian and Victorian homes and the fog - I feel like I'm in Victorian England but without the soot and ash! So atmospheric!" But after a few weeks, the fog, cold and lack of sun for someone like frankly sucks. That's one thing the South Bay and East Bay have over SF.
Also, the Bay Area has a lot to offer... for a certain kind of person (read: technology professional and those who support them - the bankers, accountants, lawyers, etc), but if you have strong artistic/creative interests, LA is by far the more dynamic place.
Although, a balanced or fair opinion of LA from a Bay Area resident is about as rare as finding a Republican in Berkeley.
uptown_urbanist
Do you think that some people's negative attitudes toward Los Angeles is because of television and movies? I get blown away when some people suggest that even Laker fans are superficial and only attend games to be chased by paparazzi. Some of the most loyal basketball fans are people like Jack Nickolson, Adam Sandler, Snopp Dog, etc. who love the sport. Also all the tv shows like "Entourage" give the impression that Hollywood is just a bunch of rich actors who smoke marijuana all day and go to parties with nude women in swimming pools [actually that sounds very cool
I think LA gets a bad rap because of how it is portrayed in movies. Also some people are envious of Los Angeles.
Yes, I agree that the media has a lot to do with it. Maybe not for the people who hate LA and already live in the city, but definitely a lot of people frome elsewhere seem to assume that life is like what they see on TV. The ironic thing is that it seems to go both ways; on these forums sometimes there seem to be some posters who think they're going to be living lives straight out The Hills and think that's the dream life, while others see those same shows and think "I could never live somewhere like that." Then the people who think they're going to be living glamorous lives move to LA, end up living in some tiny apartment in a concrete-filled seedy neighborhood, and end up hating LA because it didn't live up to the dream.
Sometimes I think I was really lucky when I moved to LA because I had such low expectations. I'd heard all the stuff about "no one walks," "one big suburb," "fake," etc., and while I had no illusions that I'd be getting regular invites to the Playboy Mansion, I also didn't think I'd like it very much.
I also think maybe some people end up hating LA because in their mind they're envisioning more of a laid-back, beach-oriented lifestyle and it doesn't work out the way they expected.
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